Nadine is an American Alsatian, a breed that has been selected to have some traits of the extinct dire wolf (Canis dirus).
If trying to breed a dog with a large number wolf-like traits is difficult, then imagine the task of trying to use domestic dog breeds to reconstruct a species that went extinct a long time ago.
Such is the case with the American Alsatian breed.
This breed is an attempt to produce a dog that sort of looks like the extinct dire wolf (Canis dirus). The history of the breed is described in the Dire Wolf Project’s website.
In 1987, a dog breeder named Lois Denny (now Lois Schwarz) began experimenting with German shepherd and malamute crosses to produce a dog that looked like a wolf.
She then began to mix in mastiff and Great Pyrenees into the lines to produce a larger, more robust wolfy dog.
This dog has no wolf in it, and it has been bred for a good temperament and good health.
It is not the wild animal that once roamed both North and South America.
But it is an interesting idea.
Some people might have issues with the reconstruction, but it’s not really all that different from what was done with the Irish wolfhound.
According to Mark Derr, the original Irish wolfhound went extinct at the end of the eighteenth century, but it was reconstructed in the middle to late nineteenth century, using deerhound, Great Dane, and even Tibetan mastiff blood.
No one is pretending that the American Alsatian is a dire wolf. It’s just dog that has been bred to look like one.
However, you still find people who think that Irish wolfhounds actually coursed Irish wolves. Their deerhound and Great Dane ancestors may have hunted wolves. The current Irish wolfhound can bring down fairly large prey.
But the modern Irish wolfhound is as much a reconstruction as this dire wolf.
Yet one never hears anyone complain about Irish wolfhounds in the way I’ve heard them complain about these dogs.
well, at least Irish Wolfhounds probably look a lot like their extinct original… I don’t think the American Alsatian looks much like a dire wolf. They look almost exactly like Shiloh Shepherds, or any of the other GSD spinoff types (King Shepherd, Pioneer Shepherd, etc). Black mask, heavy head, large ears, long tail, long feathery coat.
A friend of mine has had two of these dogs. One was a complete nutball- fearful, aggressive, and high-energy. She was eventually euthanized after dealing her owner a very bad bite, after a long history of other incidents. His current AA is a calmer dog and not aggressive at all, but still very shy. An online acquaintance of mine that has one as well, he also had trouble with shyness and fear aggression. I think it’s an endemic problem of the breed, which Lois is in major denial of, saying that it’s because they were raised wrong, and that her dogs are just “reserved”.
I don’t really have a problem with the idea of recreated breeds, or mixing breeds, or any of that stuff… it’s just all the other stuff Lois is doing that’s kinda odd. Read her website, you’ll see what I mean. Claims that Malamutes are not really Alaskan, but a mix of St. Bernard, Akita, and German Shepherd (for only one example.)
Also, for a long time, she was breeding only AA to AA- they were getting very inbred, and things were going downhill in a hurry. It looks like she is bringing a LOT of new blood right now- a Malamute, an Anatolian mix, and a GSD cross. We’ll see how it pans out, I guess.
I have no idea what the original Irish wolfhound looked like. The historical evidence is everywhere. From what I gather, they were mostly smooth-coated dogs, at least according Bewick and Buffon.
There is all the difference in the world between shy and reserved. Any vet can tell you whether the dog is shy. The distinction is important because the shy dog is inherently dangerous, the reserved one is not, although he may be dangerous due to training or other causes.
Next we need to breed apes to look like gigantopithecus
I hope they have bred out the tendency to look for food in tar pits
What if we create a bunch of new breeds simultaneously? Is that possible? So that the prospective owner can specify coat type and color, ear type and size, eye color, voice, etc. We’d build it on a few basic body plans, perfected for soundness and health and intelligence. The breedership would be decentralized and loosely organized. Breeding records would be kept, along with photos of all dogs used and bred. Open studbook. No animal ever neutered unless found defective and undesirable for breeding. Culling is ok. No requirement to find homes for ugly or sickly mutts. No pressure to buy expensive treatments for sickly dogs.
I believe the One Big Open Studbook could be kept online. Kept so that anyone could add a dog or comments or whatever. Edits could be performed only by the original poster. So, if you disagreed with a comment attached to a dog, you could add a counter-comment.
Info about owners/breeders limited to whatever that person allows.
You get my drift.
On a serious note: I think some such thing should be done before we’ve s/n’d all our dogs that are not AKC registrants. The key to saving a lot of breeds may lie in the BYB versions that are presently being neutered to extinction.
We could have an American Dog movement that could take on the ARF’s and correct some of the problems of the AKC closed registry system. Jus’ thinkin’.
nice series of old images of Irish hunting dogs here http://irish-wolfhound-club.ch/IWGalerie.html
. My guess is that the original dogs were both long and short haired — being neither as short haired as a Rottie nor as long haired as the modern rough collie. The recreation probably comes reasonably close. Only a DNA check with documented old bones (I would imagine one could find such) would verify how close they’ve come. As for the AA dog– I always am a bit suspitious of any “new breed” that claims perfect health. That usually means either they haven’t traced the dogs long enough or they haven’t bothered to actually check. Even if you grabbed a random assortment of mongrels out of shelters and bred, you’d get SOME dogs with a health issue by simple random chance. What I don’t see is the CERF / OFA, etc documentation. It’s like the recreation of the “wolf like” “noble dogs” — a claim that they can herd — well, show me the video.
The old drawings make them look very much like greyhounds. But I have to wonder whether their skin was like that of a greyhound as that would be a major disadvantage in fighting wolves and boars.
That appearance also leads me to believe that they were sight hounds. Is the modern breed a sight hound?
So beautiful! I don’t quite understand the method of breeding dogs without any wolf in them, as most “wolf looking” dogs do have some wolf in them at some point down the line, as even Malamute’s act much alike a wolf. This article is very interesting to me as I own a wolf hybrid, and she’s nothing like the sterotypes that come from owning an animal with wolf in them.
I think it is a wonderful idea to create a breed that looks like a wolf, but wouldn’t that only add to the number of people wanting a hybrid also, just for it’s looks? (As many are not properly cared for and are left to live their lives out in rescues.) I feel it could go either way..
A ‘pure’ dog is easier to live with than a hybrid (especially a high-content one). I think that alone would make them more desirable.
There is only one person to whom i sold two dogs to that was sold a female. That person (couple) told me they knew a lot about dogs and I did think they knew something about how to train a dog. The female they got was inbred and i kept the male from that litter. when i saw that female at about 5 months old, the dog was not socialized properly. All puppies have their own personalities and temperaments and as a breeder i test and communicate to every buyer how the pup they are choosing should be raised according to that pups temperament. Every new puppy owner should know this and my New Puppy Handbook explains this also, but i guess not enough. Some folks have a nack with training, some do not. These folks did not have that nack with training dogs. Getting an adult dog is a lot easier to train than raising and MOLDING a young pup from what you have as a young 6 or 7 wk old. I do take full responsability for that female pup not being trained properly because i took the couples word that they new something on how to train a young pup. After seeing that they did not know what they were doing and seeing the result of the dog, then them wanting another of my dogs, i almost did not sell them one. I did happen to have a really nice male that was more laid back so that these folks would be able to handle its personality. I feel sorry for the dog in the long run as these folks have blinders on. When you step on a puppies foot with a large heavy boot and you are about 300 lbs, then you have blinders on. I did tell the man to be careful with his feet and he ‘assured me’ that he was very careful. Some folks dont live in the real world.
I will say that it is true that the female pup i sold them was low on the temperament testing we do, but as i said, i believed them when they said they knew what they were doing. Nothing could have helped the female dog i saw when they brought her over to see me. I could have changed her around, but it would have taken at least a year to guide and mold her into the nice dog she could have been. That is how much they spoiled and ruined her. My name is Lois Schwarz and i am a responsible breeder. Breeding animals since i was seven years old and dogs since i was 18, only a handful of my dogs have been returned to me. In the past 12 yrs being here in oregon, only one dog was returned and two owners have been given replacement pups. I do breed for temperament first as well as health so i dont care if my dogs are pink with polka dots or have a imperfect ear set. Over 500 new owners will back me on this. one or two having problems is a record i am proud of… Why didnt that owner come to me for help? Cause she couldnt disapline her dog, she was too soft for that particular pup and that pup when it was grown, was the alpha of the pack. She never came over , never emailed, never called. I will never sell them another one of my dogs either. they were lucky to get that last pup from me. They knew this too, without me even saying a word i could tell they knew it.
About shy dogs. My dogs all pass the noise tests, none of my dogs or puppies will scamper and hide in a corner shaking. all pups/dogs are tested to gun shots also as well as beating on pots and pans, heavy books dropping on wooden floors. They are also all tested for touch sensitivity none of my pups scream when a needle punctures their skin. their pain level is higher than any other canine or breed of dog that i have come across in my lifetime and i get senior discounts. This testing has been going on for over 25 yrs as that is how long i have been breeding these lines. My foundation stock is about 27 years in the making with all tests being done on every single litter.
Exrays are only taken to prove the beauty of the dogs hips and elbows and I have challenged anyone to my health standards. If you are willing to pay for all the tests of a particular dog, i will gladly take him/her through all the tests and i will pay the bill if my dog doesnt pass.
Why should i spend all kinds of money on exrays when they all pass every test given? Why do i need to help OFA and their agenda? If you get a dog from me and you want to spend the money to support them, by all means go ahead… If your dog doesnt pass, i will pay the bill. I also offer to replace any ones dogs that dont pass. As i said, i dont get any of my dogs returned to me.
Outcrossing begets hybrid vigor, every single time and if you dont have a clue as to what you are doing in the breeding of animals, you shouldnt be breeding. if you dont know chemistry, why bring the subject up? if you dont know algebra, how can you discuss that subject with an Algebra teacher?
As far as the look of our dogs looking like a Dire wolf. I suppose you have seen one lately? Besides that, it is the bone structure we are duplicating at this time. You can read that in the web site. There is more to breeding a dog than just coming up with a look of a dog. A breeder needs to ‘see’ the body structure before asthetics.
I have two American Alsations. One for almost two Years and the other for 3. Both are great dogs. Loyal as can be. One was head shy at birth so we knew what we were getting and tends to be weary of strangers. He is not typical of the breed in personality.
Our other is friendly to everybody, good with kids and strangers. Very typical to the breed. For those who wonder why get a dog like this some people just want a big, beautiful, friendly, 100lb lap dog. That is what this breed will get you.
Lois – Unlike most impulsive people, I believe in researching the breed of animal before making it your family companion. I have been following and researching you for several years now. I am a loyal fan and want to tell you that there is nothing in this life we do that doesn’t bring finger pointers who tell half the story. You are caring and passionate about your work. Even though I have never met or spoke with you, that fact is evident. You keep up the good work and just let the negative stuff roll off your back.
I am 5 years into a breeding program for horses with regal, glorious looks and especially a natural (not trained) temperment for new or scared riders. I totally understand where you are coming from. And one day I will own a few of your precious pups to escort my riders in the mountains in the name of having a friendly, good time and sharing outdoors experience with these people. They can go home with photos of themselves loving on a Wolf-like dog sitting by a pine tree and tales of their splendid time with their gorgeous, human loving horses.
To ANYONE who feels the need to jump on the critic bandwagon. What is wrong with you? Don’t you know that everything that is here on Earth had a spiritual creation first? We are just the medium to which they find their way here. Chill out and go create something of your own.
Love and Peace to everyone -TJ
Actually, I thought that most organisms are an expression of a collection of genes. Which, when you are involved in a poorly designed breeding program based more on myth than science, genetics, and mathematics, means that those organisms start off and end up at a disadvantage. My bad.
Jessica what is based on myth?
Why shouldn’t you just mix an AA with a tamaskan or a saarloos. You will get a more bold nature (since some people think AA are shy’ish) and the dog will look more like a bigger kind of wolf. Since it kinda looks like a shepherd, more wolfy but still has some shepherd traits.
For the record I am not a breeder so I know nothing about it besides basic high school knowledge and I am not giving advice or anything.
It’s just a thought I have been thinkering with. :)
In the Uk some breeders created something called the nothern inuit. This is a mix of gsd/mal/husky to look wolf like (just wolf not dire wolf). There was a split in the breed with some people breeding utonagans that are hevay built and long haired and some sticking with the inuits.
Sadly poor breeding method led to health issues and the breeds have lost popularity. Largely replaced with inuit crosses either with the original founding breeds or cezch and sarloos wolfdogs.
Re shy/reserved. The thing is a good trainer can take a shy/reserved dog and teach it to cope with the hings it dislikes. The dog will no longer appear shy/reserved. However if the dog was owned/trained by someone with poor skills the dog will be shy/reserved and the poor handling may even make it worse! So either breed confident dogs or only sell to competent handlers.
Re high energy, I don’t consider that a fault at all!
Adam
To add I believe the dog used to play the dire wolfs in the first season of game of thrones are inuits.