These dogs are very uncommon in the US. These dogs are very dark yellows– the same as the darkest golden retrievers. In the UK, they tend to be concentrated in the working lines, which is in much the same way as the darker colors in golden retrievers.
How attractive! I love how much variation there is in the shades and hues of phaeomelanistic dogs.
“…how much variation there is…”
Gosh !
There REALLY should be more. Our fine lookin’, nice behaving dogs are sicker than ever. Guess why .
Oh, are they really “sicker than ever”?
Any scientific study on the issue would be much appreciated.
Yes they are.
Haven’t you watched the TV or red the many articles written on it, by vets and other experts around the world ?
I think there isn’t any “scientific study” over the issue on the general – for a reason or another…
But, for that, the human medical science, suprisingly, have recently found the issue very, very intresting . So actually there ARE many studies going on, but of course, thus, they mainly concentrate on the qualities, not quantities.
Thus, our sick dogs have opened up a great window to look in to the genetic bases of the many human diseases. That’s because due to the modern breeding and living habits, our dogs have developed diseases like many kind of allergies, diabetes, cancer, ephilepsy, heart diseases, etc.
These didn’t excist before the dog show age to these amounts, if at all, as today.
Also, among the most common sicknesses in dogs are breathing problems and inabilities in the normal daily movement – caused by the deadly morphological breeding . Google it and you’ll find the evidence you need.
Thanks for your well meant advice but I’m afraid I rely on Google’s info supply with a pinch of salt… ;)
You might try pubmed, then.
Of course, I do know.
If you really cannot tell the trustable information from the trash Google gives you, sorry I think no-one here can help you, jerk.
He he :D Quite right, it’s quite piteous one couldn’t figure out the difference between trustworthy information and non-trustworthy one, isn’t it.
I guess I should have specified that I meant phenotype variation, not genotype variation. Sigh…I know what you mean. My poor little purebred dog is a bundle of health issues, herself.
Miranda,
It’s really sad and frustrating. Seems to be the same here . So many, if not the most of the pure-breds I know have allergies, or sceletal / moving problems, or ephilepsy, and a few bitches seem to develope a serious cancer only at their mid-age .
But Miranda, if you think you breed for a phenotype, it’s NOT NEVER just for the phenotype. With that, you’ll be throwing away buckets of very useful, genetical variation .
It’s really depressing.
I know. I like the many colors dogs come in, but I think that should be at the bottom of the priority list for breeders. (Emphasis on “should”; I know things aren’t like that in reality). The fact that many breeders are so willing to throw away genetic variation that’s vital to the health of the breed’s gene pool based on superficial things like having the wrong ears or markings is just so…endlessly frustrating. Like the whole nonsense with white German Shepherds, uugh.
“if you think you breed for a phenotype, it’s NOT NEVER just for the phenotype. With that, you’ll be throwing away buckets of very useful, genetical variation”
Goodness, what a brainstorm!
With your err… in-depth knowledge of breeding you should be aware of the fact that two similar phenotypes may well produce a litter where ALC is 1 or close to it, shouldn’t you!
Interesting that you can find darker Goldens around if you look but darker Labs are so rare. I’ve never seen one IRL.
red fox coloured labs are becoming quite popular over here. on saturaday i saw the 3 gorgeous dark red GOLDEN (as in not whte or cream retrievers) retrievers and yes they are working line and she does work them too. lovely dogs a real deep red chestnut, wish id taken my camera as not only was it a lovely snowy walk but i saw them too and would have photographed them. oh well maybe i will see them agan soon.
I love the fox red labs.
In the early 1900s, wasn’t the Golden Retriever known as just “Retriever, golden and yellow” with the golden color actually being the red color?
Yes.
Here are some goldens from the Noranby line from the 1930’s, which produced the first champion in the breed.
This was the original color range in the breed.
That’s a gorgeous dog! Was the red a spontaneous development or did someone do some judicious out crossing?
It was something close to the original color of yellow labs. They were often quite red in color.
Mrs Charlesworth’s foundation bitch, Normanby Beauty (Noranby Beauty) was likely the first source of the dark golden/red coloring in that line of what is now called Golden Retriever. Beauty’s pedigree or background is unknown to us; it was never revealed by Mrs Charlesworth. Based on Beauty’s photograph, she was a stocky, very dark, sort with a wavy coat. And of course the Tweedmouth line did have one cross to a red setter, no doubt the heavier sort as painted by Richard Ansdell and common in Britain at that time.
A question that has bugged me for a long, long time: When I look at pictures of wolves, their eyes are almost always light-colored (usually amber). Yet most breeds of domestic dog have dark brown eyes. Has anybody ever ventured a genetic opinion in re this dichotomy?
Selection pressure against. I have known a few people who believe if a dog is light-eyed, it is a wolf cross and must be shot to protect their livestock.
Some years ago I remember reading a comment from a researcher that light (yellow) irises enabled better perception of detail and movement at a distance. This was related to animals as predators, and, interestingly wild felines, wild canines, and birds such as owls and hawks — generally do have yellow eyes.
Additionally, as people prefer the softer, non-predatory expression of dark eyes in their domestic dogs, selection has been (as Dave says) for darker (brown) eyes.
I don’t think the preference for dark eyes in the fancy has anything to do with visual acuity. It has more to do with your second point, which is that people don’t like dogs that look predatory.
In Salukis, native breeders often prefer light eyes, they believe the dogs can see better. There is a definite preference in the West for dark, soft eyes, and I have seen people severely penalize dogs with a hard expression. The AKC standard calls for eyes to be ‘dark to hazel.’ The Afghan people have a bi-polar preference, triangular or almond shaped, not soft but definitely dark. Light eyes are a fault.
Neither standard says anything about how well the dog can see. I guess they take it for granted.
Light coloured eyes were obviously quite common in labradors during the early years of the breed. The very first breed standard (1916) says “The eyes should be of medium size, expressing great intelligence and good temper, and can be brown, yellow or black”.
MRS,
that’s very intresting , and if I’m asked about, I believe in it. Many canines have yellow eyes, but as you say, birds like hawks, owls and eagles too, who are famous for they long-distance, sharp seeing abilities, have yellow-coloured irises.
It’s true, one hundered years ago yellow-eyed dogs were very common in the breeds. Not any more. Genetically it’s recessive. But it’s our breeding system that has made the major effect on the trait’s disappearing.
Thanks for all the replies–the anthropocentric selection pressure against light colored eyes makes sense in light of my experience. A former, single, never at home, neighbor had an adult, blue-eyed, male Siberian of unusually large stature. He was a good-natured old goof, but people were extremely leery of him because of his “stare” and the fact that he never barked (except when he got tangled in his leash in the middle of the night and it was me that had to get up and rescue him.) We were already “dogged out” to the max so I arranged to find a new home for him with someone who had grown up with Siberians and Sammies, but his wife subsequently made him get rid of the dog because his “stare” made her uneasy (needless to say I was pissed.) I hope he finally found a family who appreciated him.
Well there’s a familiar face :) Fox-reds are becoming more abundant in the UK amongst working labrador owners but are still a little unusual outside the shooting community. I often get asked what breed Tess (above) is.
She’s beautiful.
My favorite dog, and the one to whom this blog is largely dedicated, was the long-haired version:
https://retrieverman.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/goldie.jpg?w=500&h=281
Red is naturally a very common colour in southern dog populations like Dingos, Iberian Podencos, and many others.
The fact that people have a problem with new colors in old breeds shows just how close minded the purebred world is. If you can’t breed a healthy and temperamentally sound dog that is of the “wrong” color, then your gene pool is being further diminished.
Revolution has already began .
…with the caveat that there ARE some colors that bring with them deleterious factors– such as the albinoid Dobermans (severe photophobia is one problem there) or double-merle syndrome, deafness in some forms of white coat coloring, dilute-color alopecia, and others.
[…] Rachael doesn’t look very much like Tess, Pippa’s working-bred fox red Labrador. […]
Wow. what a beautiful dog! You should see these puppies at http://www.familylovedlabs.com