Yes. Most of the breeds we have today can be found in Ancient Egyptian art.
Like this obvious Dalmatian:
All they did was breed for floppy ears and a straight tail to make the modern variant.
But the ancient Egyptians clearly had them.
And they are clearly a breed of truly ancient origin!
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You make me laugh. Thank you I needed it! It actually looks brindle almost to me, no defined stripes I know, but maybe?? I had an Alaskan husky years ago that was solid brindle, she kind of looked mottled though with her thick coat.
Reminds me of the speckled Greyhounds I sent you, the ones you said looked like they had ich.
They even had knee joint in the front leg in pharonic time or is it a broken leg…
The ancient Croatian fancy needs to be commended for all the hard work they put in to this breed to straighten that tail. Ironing out those curves must have taken keen breeding strategies and expert judging over many generations.
Although this might not be the case as the Dalmatian is clearly derived from the Jackal and not the Wolf and everyone knows that it’s very easy to untwist a Jackal’s tail and reverse the direction of their joints.
“Ironing out those curves must have taken keen breeding strategies and expert judging over many generations.”
no, you silly, it was easy. They just kept ironing the tails (irons are well known Croatian artifacts) until they were straight. And then they’d breed the the dogs with straightened tails. The results were dogs with straight tails. duh.
Just like the Lion Dog of Confucius’ time was almost identical to the Pekingese (or was it the pug) of today.
April 1?
APril Fools?
https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/april-fool-2/ yep.
[…] The Dalmatian from Ancient Egypt was certainly not a Dalmatian: […]
I thought the Dalmation decends from the family of the kuassa, that being Dog Horse – a dog that runs with the horses, which is overlapping with the basic Alaunt/Alano used in ancient warfare to run with warriors on horseback, and to guard the cattle (livestock) and herdsmen? I’ve read the spots are but ticking bred for their beauty, but our White English in South USA, they also sport this ticking and spotting, though it fades down the legs. Such dogs ran along side the chariots, which were introduced from the steppes to Rome, Greece, and Persia.
Since the Egyptions are themselves decendant of the Caucasion race, this would only follow. For it was the domestication of horse and creation of the wheel that helped to spread out more freely from the steppes.
My take on the official histories of Dalmatians is that they are all full of crap.
The dogs, which we call Dalmatians that look like them, date to the eighteenth century and in England. They are nothing more than glorified pointer crosses, and the genetic data shows this to be the case:
https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/new-genome-wide-study-sheds-light-on-dog-breed-relationships/
“Dalmation history is long and full of legends. His body type mimics both the pointers and the tight-skinned, small-eared hounds of eastern Europe. Since these types developed from one another, it may be a moot point.”
The Atlas of Dog Breeds of the World
I’m not sure I understand your point of view, as in the past you freely admit that dogs have been interbred since ancient times. So what’s the difference of then and now? The English simply have this “We are responsible for most all modern dog breed purity and orgins” nonsense written in the past few centuries. When, in fact, the basic herding/guarding Dalmation that still runs with horses and chariots perhaps was ruined by the English, as they ruined the Alaunt/Alano with their Staghound and Pug type crosses and nonsense of being the greatist breeders of the great Bulldog and Mastiff. What a load of crap. The Bulldog never existed in England untill introduced by Spain in 1556. Instead, the origins of both the Dalmation and the Alaunt/Alano used for herding/guarding and running with horses and chariot logically derived from where horses were domesticated and the wheel invented. And, England had no part of this ancient process!
At the time of “The Late Stone Age” of about 10000BC “Rise of nomad tribes, herdsmen, in country east of Danube,” as well as “Wars among communities,” ear marks the basic herding/guarding dogs – especially those that became known as the Alaunt/Alano.
2500BC – “Parent people of Indo-European living on the steppes east of caspian Sea. They have the horse, domesticated oxen, and wheeled carts.”
all quotes from the Lincoln Library
The Celts, deriving from Southern Germany, west of the Danube, spread the Alaunt/Alano type to Spain, joined the Iberians of Spain, and they jointly, known as the Celtiberians, introduced cattle to the British Isles. England is about the last place to recive domesticated dogs to work livestock and fight in warfare. And, in their short time have ruined many a breed type, all the while claimming to be the source and savour of dog breeds.
Sorry, but the genetic evidence clearly shows that what we call a Dalmatian is within the gun dog group, and it’s not that old.
These are legends, nothing more.
I’ve seen the depictions of the alleged ancient Dalmatians. The one on this post is in that vein.
One of them is clearly a Harlequin dog that looks very much like a Great Dane.
Dalmatians point. They act like gun dogs, specifically very much like English pointers, though some will guard, the result of bulldog or bull and terrier that was crossed in.
Here are my posts that debunk all the nonsense about Dalmatians:
1. https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/dalmatian-on-point/
2. https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/braque-du-bourbonnais-with-a-tail/
3. https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/grey-spotted-hound-1738/
And, where do “Gun Dogs” derive? For guns are a new invention. Gun Dogs can not therefore be an ancient breed type.
But Dalmatians aren’t ancient. They are derived from modern gun dogs.
Gun dogs have several different lineages.
Most of them actually do predate guns. Pointers, for example, pointed rabbits or hares, which were then flushed for greyhounds to course. The ancestral water dog, which was like a Barbet or poodle, was used to retrieve missed arrows or to haul or set nets. Poodle-type dogs were also used to herd stock. Spaniels also predate guns. You can find depictions of spaniels, pointers, and poodle-type water dogs from the early Renaissance period.
I have heard of these so-called genetic cluster tests, and some guy was trying to get me to have my White English tested. I asked him, what is the comparison of purity in the Bulldog. He said, English Bulldog. But, the EB is a major distortion that can harldly breath much less pin a bull or fight a wolf. I’d not put too much weight in these DNA studies, as they are based on modern histories of dogs which we know are themselves mostly concocted from fantisy. I’m told, the Presa Canario decends from the ancient breed cluster of DNA, but we all know, the modern Presa is quite the rebuilt monstosity which may pin a bull, but I doubt many can kill a wolf.
Yeah because they conflict with your fantasies and legends.
Doesn’t everyone’s fantisy and legends conflict? (No need to be rude, but if you must, then please delete me from your fourm, as rudness shows insucurity – a weakness – someone not to be trusted!
Aren’t they funny, Scottie? ‘Delete me from your forum!’ Like they aren’t here voluntarily, posting voluntarily. Who knew that Scottie had people stationed about the world, holding gun to head to make sure that Post Comment button gets pressed?
Well being able to spell helps.
I was hardly rude. I can be rude.
Rudeness comes from the simple reality that you won’t listen.
If I had a child like that, he or she would think me most rude.
What happened was you lost the argument, and you came in here with some very weak sauce for evidence to back up your position.
I have admitted that some of my histories on here are incorrect, simply because the DNA has falsified them.
Oh, so now I’m a child? Sorry about my spelling, and I’ve been put down on this board before for my improper American English. If we can’t agree to disagree, how then can we share info and thoughts? For who made you prevarer of all truth and reality? Truth and reality is but a perception. And, perception is forged by experiance, which makes us individuals. I came to this board because I thought it was pretty cool you could figure out what we call White English Bulldog is actually a type of Shepherd’s mastiff, but you lost me when you gave advice on how to breed guard dogs of livestock and family. Have you ever seen a fighting dog fight? Do you even know, that the tiny APBT are world renouned for the ability, on a greater than average, to whip dogs 2 to 3 times larger than themselves? Have you ever experianced or known anyone to experiance a pack of feral dogs, wolves, or even wild boar to carry a child off in the woods for dinner? If this happens, is your breeding advice of a guard dog sound? Do you really have the knowledge or experiance in such subject matter? No, do me a favor, please delete me from this fourm.
I have seen a boxer kill another dog. I’ve seen plenty of dog fights. Please do not assume that because I write in complete sentences with correct grammar that I grew up in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
You’ve come on my posts, which link to peer-reviewed articles, also known as science, and you’ve parroted some hick dog breeder from the 1970’s, as if his word somehow trumps the work of Ph.D.’s who have worked in the field for years. I find that very childish.
You also hold onto legends and lore when the scientific or even the historical evidence suggests otherwise. Also quite childish. A lot of people in your part of the world can’t get over losing that big war, eh?
If you are subscribed to this blog, then you must unsubscribe. WordPress no longer allows me to remove subscribers.
You need to do some more reading, Ray. Scottie has a shitload of articles on DNA analysis on this very blog. These are not your over the counter “what’s your mixed breed made of” DNA ‘tests.’
It’s a lot harder to LIE with genes than it is with stories.
One must also question the specimens of such DNA studies, did they come from England? Which bloodlines did they derive? Strains are but breeds within breeds. A registered dog means very little in actual purity of a specific specimen. Convoluted history still abounds even more with modern technolgy, such as the computor, DNA studies, etc. Papers mean much of nothing. Did this study include Dalmations of their homeland? (unpapered dogs all the better from my experiance)
You mean England?
There are no Dalmatians in Croatia that trace to ancient or endemic lineages.
I can tell you that right now.
The genomic study I just referenced looked at more SNPS in the dog genome than any other study.
There are no rustic Dalmatians running around Croatia. It’s not like salukis or farm collies, where you can still find rustic dogs.
And there is no good evidence at all that Dalmatians come from Croatia. They are first mentioned in Buffon in the eighteenth century.