Posts Tagged ‘bloodhound-golden retriever skepticism’

While everyone is looking at my evidence on the bigfoot hoax, I think I’ll look into another inconsistent story. This is the story of the bloodhound cross in the golden retriever. It has one source, and no documentation. Lord Ilchester was the main source for the pedigrees of the retrieverthat Elma Stonex used in her book. Ilchester wrote an article in Country Sports and Country Life that first exposed these pedigrees and kennel records to the wider public. It thoroughly debunked the Russian origins of the golden retriever. If the Caucasian Owtcharka had been more common in the West at this time, this theory would have been debunked immediately.

However, Lord Ilchester’s records include something that seems a little out of place. Most of the records of the Guisachan kennel go from 1868 to 1889, and in no place is there a mention of a bloodhound being added to the cross. Supposedly, this cross happened after 1889, and according to Lord Ilchester, were “rather savage.”   The actual records of this cross was written down a piece of paper and was lost.

Lord Ilchester was just a child when these crosses supposedly happened, so I can forgive him for not knowing what exactly went on. The 1st Baron Tweedmouth was Lord Ilchester’s uncle.

I’m a trained historian, and I am somewhat schooled in canine color and behavior genetics. Historians can only use evidence for which there is proof. Lost pieces of paper are not evidence. However, the golden retriever is the only breed of dog I know of that has these records of its origin. Most dog origin histories are full of lore and unsubstantiated rumor. However, bcause of the incomplete nature of the evidence behind the supposition of the bloodhound cross, I cannot accept this as true historical record.

Secondly, scent hound retriever crosses are usually more scent hound than retriever. Those that are majority retriever tend to lack biddability and retrieving instinct. I will refer you to Merle’s Door by Ted Kerasote, a wonderful book about a Labrador/Redbone Hound cross. Merle looks more like a retriever than most hound/retriever crosses. He is a clever dog, but he’s not that biddable. He also refuses to retrieve or even mouth anything. Also, I saw a cross between a black Labrador and a bluetick coonhound a few years ago. Blueticks are descended from the Grand bleu de Gascogne, a French hound that closely resembles a bloodhound. This dog looked like a black bloodhound. It acted like one, too. Very stubborn. My guess is that the bloodhound would be the last thing you’d want crossed into your working retriever lines. You want retrieving behavior and biddability (trainability, smarts, and ability to take direction). None of these behaviors exist in most scent hounds.

Further, in domestic dogs, short hair is dominant to long hair. A cross between a bloodhound and golden retriever would have short hair. No pictures of short-haired goldens exist, except those that were early crosses with the Tweed water spaniel.  The dogs that are supposedly part bloodhound have longer coats than goldens appearing in later generations. I think that instead of a bloodhound, that a large Newfoundland or a large way-coat with close large Newf ancestry was crossed in.

Also, bloodhounds are not savage and never were. The breed known as a bloodhound is really the Chien de St. Hubert, developed as a tracking pack hound in Ardennes in Belgium. St. Hubert was the patron saint of hunters, who was originally the son of the Duke of Aquitaine. One day, he was hunting a stag, when a stag supposedly approached him and told him that unless he repented, he was going to hell. The stage then instructed him to meet the Bishop Lambert to receive instruction. Hubert became a bishop, and eventually an abbey was built in his honor in the Ardennes. The monks who inhabited this abbey bred large scent hounds as they hunted the forest in veneration of Hubert. These scent hounds were given to the King of France as tribute, and they eventually wound up in the hands of many European nobles. France and Belgium were already recognized as the birth place of scent hounds, which were developed there by the Ancient Celts before the Roman Conquest. White St. Hubert Hounds or Chien de Saint Hubert were called Talbot, and probably played a role in developed white and spotted hounds like the Billy, the Porcelaine, and the spotted foxhounds of England. All scent hounds were pack dogs and were not aggressive towards people. Today’s bloodhound/St. Hubert Hounds/Chien de Hubert are genial but stubborn dogs, as they were in the late nineteenth century.

They also do not come and never did come in the recessive red color that golden retrievers have. They come in a masked red. Sometimes, this mask is smaller or not noticeable. I am not sure of the genetics of it, but I do know that when a malinois was crossed accidentally with a golden, brindle and back pups resulted. It seems to me that this is what you’d get if you crossed a red bloodhound with a golden retriever. Goldens are a red to yellow recessive with black skin pigment. Many dogs that appear the same color have a different genotype than this, and when crossed with a golden, very often you get black or strangely colored offspring.

Thus, I am very skeptical about the bloodhound cross in the golden retriever. I have never seen a golden that looked anything like a bloodhound or acted anything like one either.

As for bloodhounds being savage, this comes from Uncle Tom’s Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe. The novel is an attack on slavery in the United States, and the pivotal scene is when the bloodhounds belonging to the slave master chase after the escaped slaves who are escaping across the frozen Ohio River. These dogs are savage. This isn’t the same breed as St. Hubert’s Hound.  In the Slave South, as recounted by Mark Derr in A Dog’s History of America, Latin American “bloodhounds” from Cuba and Brazil were purchased to track and savage escaped slaves and Indians.

What are these bloodhounds? The Cuban bloodhound is actually a mastiff-bloodhound cross, derived from Spanish war mastiffs that were brought to Cuba to tear native Cubans apart and then tear into Cuban slaves once that practice became established on the island. It was also used by Captain Henry Wirz at the Andersonville Prison Camp to tear into escaped Union soldiers during the Civil War. This breed is now extinct.

However, the Brazilian bloodhound still exists. It is now called the Fila Brasileiro. It still has the old type mastiff aggression, and it does look a lot like a bloodhound.

Bloodhound/St. Hubert’s Hound is on the right. The Fila is on the left.

Confusion between these two types is why we once thought bloodhounds were aggressive.

And neither played a role in the development of the golden retriever as near as I can tell.

Bloodhounds were crossed into setters, however, and perhaps the Tweed water spaniel. Through these breeds there may be an indirect link with the bloodhound and the golden retriever. But it is indirect.

Hounds may have been crossed into early retrievers, before they split off into the various strains. Sir Francis Grant has a painting called “Shooting Party-Ranton Abbey”  of two retrievers working for the Earl of Lichfield. The one on the right looks like collie derived retriever with a long, black and tan coat.  The one on the left is golden colored, which is a bit of a shock– most retrievers in the 1840’s were black. It has long ears and a slightly domed head. It has been suggested that this dog is derived from a bloodhound. However, it could be a St. John’s water dog crossed with a setter that had bloodhound ancestry. This dog does have longer hair than the short-haired St. John’s water dog, suggesting some setter ancestry. Early Irish setters often had heavier heads than the current breed, so it may just be a setter and St. John’s water dog-derived retriever.

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