Canis lupus hominis

Posted in animal welfare | 27 Comments

27 Responses

1. on November 25, 2009 at 3:51 am Bill

   I hope this douche drives very slowly on his book tour, to avoid squishing bugs along the way.

   
   
2. on November 25, 2009 at 6:15 am Rinalia

   Well, there isn’t anything that provoking for me. :) I’m vegan and work for a farmed animal sanctuary – I’m the choir, so to speak. Masson, I find to be quite humorous in person, although I think the basis for one of his books was poorly thought out.

   
   
3. on November 25, 2009 at 11:31 am Viatecio

   Ah, the bemusings of a prosyletizing vegan. They don’t provoke me anymore, they make me laugh. Some things, you just can’t reinvent the wheel, and their efforts to convince me that they have a better wheel are like that French Bulldog puppy video: looking cute and getting attention, while ultimately getting nowhere. Life is too short to be angry at these people :p

   Even UK behaviorist Peter Neville, when I spoke to him about Ohio’s Issue 2, stated that there is no such things as a Happy Vegan: “They don’t get tryptophan or any other amino acids that one gets from meat, and because they’re lacking those, they just aren’t happy.” No offense meant, Rinalia…those are his words, not mine.

   
   
   • on November 25, 2009 at 12:30 pm retrieverman

     I mean I love his books on animal emotions. I believe animals are capable of suffering.

     I don’t like the way he romanticizes dogs. Dogs can be maninpulative little brats if they want to be, and I think they are more than capable of deception about their emotions, and I know of two dogs that hated each other.

     
     
     • on November 25, 2009 at 6:27 pm Jess

       My dogs lie frequently to manipulate the other dogs. Barkbarkbarkbark there’s something outside! Get it! to get that coveted spot on the dog bed or the new toy.

       
       
     • on November 26, 2009 at 6:03 am Pai

       Anyone who’s owned toy breeds knows this fact too well. I will swear my dog knows how to turn on the ‘cute’ to try and get what she wants.

       
       
   • on November 25, 2009 at 12:31 pm retrieverman

     Doesn’t Peter Neville write for Dogs Today (or used to)?

     
     
     • on November 25, 2009 at 9:27 pm Viatecio

       I have no idea. I was able to have a lovely chat with him only after he gave a wonderful presentation about the ability of animals to have emotions and the need to treat them according to their needs and drives. He was invited by the main uni here in town, but presented at our little community college for some reason.

       
       
   • on November 25, 2009 at 6:58 pm Rinalia

     No offense taken. I have magically imbibed protein from the land of rainbows and elves for the past fifteen years. It is how I have remained healthy and happy – rainbows can do that for a person!

     As to Mr. Neville, a behaviorist does not a nutritionist make.

     
     
     • on November 25, 2009 at 7:42 pm retrieverman

       Here’s something you might find interesting: http://www.shinyamasaki.org/sniper_logic/tedkerasote.html

       These are pretty close to my views on the subject.

       
       
     • on November 25, 2009 at 7:49 pm retrieverman

       http://www.enotes.com/bloodties-salem/bloodties

       
       
     • on November 25, 2009 at 9:40 pm Viatecio

       I think the only vegans who ARE happy are those who aren’t trying to push their views on others and who simply accept that getting angry at or otherwise insulting other people isn’t going to make them stop a lifelong habit. It’s hard to be happy when your life’s goal of converting millions of demi-carnivores is just so implausible!

       Keep imbibing in those rainbows!

       
       
       • on November 26, 2009 at 12:02 am Rinalia

         Viatecio, I *am* happy, unless you have more insight into my emotional state than even I – anonymous internet people often do, I suppose.

         As to insults, fascinating statement coming from the one who is so willing to cast aspersions while simultaneously hiding behind the fallacious “But *I* didn’t say it, THAT guy did” argument! :)

         Those rainbows have kept me vigorous and healthy for a long time. Clearly, something’s working.

         Retrieverman, I choose not to consume animal products (to the best of my ability) because I live in a region of the world where it is feasible and healthy not to. I parsed through Kerasote’s interview and, while I find his insight fascinating and interesting, it’s not the path I would choose to tread.

         
         
         • on November 26, 2009 at 12:04 am Rinalia

           “because I live in a region of the world where it is feasible and healthy not to.”

           Double-negative-confusion possible! Tried, potentially unsuccessfully to convey that it is feasible and healthy for me, in northern California, to be vegan. :)

           
           
           • on November 26, 2009 at 12:09 am retrieverman

             I respect your decisions. I am pro-choice when it comes to just about all health decisions.

             However, in this area, you can get grass-fed beef that actually lived on the range before death.

             You can also get venison, and you know that wild deer are living pretty natural lives.

             
             
             • on November 26, 2009 at 1:41 am Rinalia

               I appreciate that. No matter how nice the life, I just cannot feel comfortable taking away another animal’s life when I don’t have to.

               Both my dogs are on a raw-meat diet. The animals they eat lived mostly natural lives. I feel as good as a vegan animal lover can about that decision. :)

               
               
4. on November 25, 2009 at 2:51 pm Bill

   What in the world does he feed his pet dogs?

   
   
   • on November 25, 2009 at 2:58 pm retrieverman

     I don’t know whether he’s made them vegan (and you can do this with a dog) or not, but in one of his books he agonizes over feeding his cats meat. He wonders whether he should get another cat because it’s a meat eater.

     Some very sad dogs here:

     http://www.vegandognutritionassociation.com/

     
     
     • on November 26, 2009 at 6:05 am Pai

       Why don’t they just get a rabbit or guinea pig instead of a carnivorous animal, if it bothers them so much?

       
       
       • on November 26, 2009 at 6:19 am Jess

         That’s crazy talk!

         
         
       • on November 26, 2009 at 1:05 pm retrieverman

         In this book, he gets a puppy, a kitten, a pair of rats, a pair of chickens, and a rabbit and tries to raise them together to produce a “Peacable Kingdom” : http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Peaceable-Kingdom-Tolerance-Friendship/dp/0345466136

         This is where he agonizes on what animal to get. He eventually chooses to get a ragdoll kitten, because they don’t have very strong hunting instincts (I have no idea whether they do or not.) One of his adult cats kills one of the rats. The rabbit and the chickens become friends. The dog isn’t trained properly so she becomes a pain in the rump, and she’s a German short-hair/Australian cattle dog cross, which means she is a very smart, active dog that needs training to stimulate her mind. The cat and the rabbit become friends.

         And this is supposed to tell us how to have a just and decent society. Lots of reflections on genocides and ethnic conflict are somehow gleaned from the work.

         His book on dogs is better, but he turns the dogs into noble savages who never do awful things and have a sense of justice.

         Dogs can be shitheads! They are smart enough be shitheads.

         
         
5. on November 27, 2009 at 4:36 am always kinky

   He wears a watch in the video. A watch which took resources to make. But why would anyone wear a watch? There are no real minutes or hours: those are just made up increments used by man. If he wants to live the natural life, he would never need a watch to measure minutes.

   He uses a microphone and electricity to espouse his message. How could anyone who cares about animals living natural lives use electricity, which means enormous use of resources and raping of nature, use electricity?

   He wears clothing. If he believes animals should live natural lives, why is he hiding his natural hide with clothing which required extraordinary consumption of natural resources? If he wants to meet animal upon animal, he needs to show up with his natural hide.

   He thinks eating animals is worse than the consumption of the very landscape the animals he wants to free need to BE free. If he wants to live in a natural world, he needs to walk, naked, to his next speaking engagement and feed on plants along the way.

   Only then would he be a true prophet. Otherwise, he’s just a guy someone gave a microphone.

   
   
   • on November 29, 2009 at 8:36 am Pai

     I have the same thoughts towards Vegans who haughtily inform people of how many animals have to die so we can eat meat, while happily consuming plant matter harvested by combines that crush millions of animals every year while being sprayed by poisons that kill millions more. Not to mention the fact that probably most of the objects they wear and decorate their houses with are the result of animals somewhere being displaced or killed.

     
     
6. on November 27, 2009 at 10:52 pm cyborgsuzy

   At least you’re honest about it.

   
   
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