I love the guy who thinks his golden retriever is a great protection dog.
The proper golden retriever temperament is antithetical to protecting anyone.
And that’s the way they should be.
I like that golden retrievers are supposed be friendly and docile animals.
Now, in recent years, aggression in golden retrievers has become an issue.
I don’t much like this development. They are not supposed to be aggressive or protective animals. They are supposed to be very easily trained and regimented, and they are supposed to be super friendly and sociable with people and other dogs (and I have one that thinks all other dogs were put on this planet to be her playmates.)
Many people believe that their dogs are “so loyal” that they will protect their property or even come to their defense. I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that my dog won’t be doing either of those things.
I have a working line German shepherd dog that clearly warns anyone approaching that this is *his* house. If they actually broke in, though, he’d likely bluff charge and then back off because I deliberately haven’t trained him for bite work and he knows he’s *not* supposed to use his mouth on people. He’d also make enough noise to alert the whole neighborhood. This is perfect in my opinion, because what happens if the “intruders” are EMS, come to help me if I’ve collapsed with a heart attack? Or firemen, come to put out a blaze that started while I was away? People who want dogs to attack intruders don’t think of these possibilities, but dogs are *dogs* and can’t draw these important distinctions. There’s also the risk that real burglars might hurt the dog. Discretion in that case is much better than valor — your stuff can be replaced, in my opinion it’s not worth the dog being injured or killed.
I have a light-colored pet line golden (mix of field and English show lines) and she is the worst watchdog that ever lived. She doesn’t bark at anyone.
Like most bitches in her breed, she is smallish– about 60 pounds. She’s very bit inhibited, so I don’t think she would even know how to attack someone.
Why would anyone with a golden even expect that they might do more than maybe bark a little, and then wiggle in glee at the “visitors”? If you want a guard dog you don’t get a retriever, it’s just not in their job description! Some of the yappy little companion dogs would be a better choice if you want a noisy threat deterrent. Then again, a lot of people have very unrealistic views on what is actually going through their dog’s minds in any given situation. The reality is often quite different. (I used to volunteer for a shelter and work for a vet, so I’ve seen my share of nice well intentioned people who don’t understand the most basic things about their companion animals.)
If you get a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, then you should expect to have a watch dog.
A lot of people think golden retrievers are good watch dogs, like that man in the video!
Most dogs will alert bark and, really, that’s all the protection most homes and people need. The mere presence of a dog, even a big doofy, Golden Retriever, generally deters would-be muggers (not all, as I’ve read stories of would-be felons assaulting people walking big, muscular, non-Retriever dogs).
Mina, my pit bull, isn’t going to protect me, though I like to pretend she might (I never want to be in the test-case situation). She alert barks something fierce and most folks aren’t going to bother with an apartment where a loud dog is screaming bloody murder. She might circle and bark if I’m being attacked, or nip at heels…she’s more like a cattle dog in her behavior that way. :)
There have been times when my landlord has had to come into my apartment w/o me there. I felt fine leaving Mina loose and my comfort proved correct when she didn’t eat my landlord or the strange people he brought in (to check on my heater). She observed them and lay on my bed.
Celeste, I don’t know. She alert barks but not like Mina, and she always runs to me for assurance, a “did I do good? am I okay?” sort of gesture. She loves people a lot, but she’s a sensitive dog, so I imagine she’d be running for the hills if a scary person came into the house. I don’t know if she’d protect me. Maybe. If she did, it would be the only time I could count on Mina to help – she’s the classic follower.
You don’t know many golden retrievers, do you?
Most won’t even bark!
I had one as a kid (she had similar coloration as the dog in your icon) – she “wuffled” with the best of them. Though it was probably more of a “PLEASE COME IN AND PET ME!!!!” sort of attention-seeking bark.
A neighbor of mine had a Golden Retriever who wuffled at me a lot as well. And then I’d give him a cookie, so wuffling was definitely a happy, give me cookies sort of behavior.
But it’s true, I don’t KNOW KNOW that many retrievers. I do smoosh the face of any I meet, much to their delight. There are many smoosh-faced Goldens in the greater bay area of california. :)
That first behavior is the golden retriever behavior.
I had one that would make a breathy, chuffing sound as a greeting behavior.
My current dog yodels and moans.
Most pit bulls I’ve been around are very unlikely guard dogs. They are more like golden retrievers in how they react to people. Other dogs might be a different story.
Yes, I live in an urban neighborhood in which there’s some chance of both street robbery and home invasion … and, by virtue of urban population density, a much greater chance that a very reactive dog would get a chance to take a chomp out of a neighbor. That I’m as confident as one can be about a dog that mine won’t nibble on any little kid that comes running up in the park or someone emerging from an elevator is even more important than the (also nice) fact that he looks like a small, curly tailed wolf, deterring people from bugging me when we’re out and about. And, in the tradeoff between the potential risk that someone might boost a TV vs. the potential risk a very reactive dog might misinterpret someone’s intent and bite, the ideal is a no brainer to me. The distinction between watch dog and guard dog could be drawn even more sharply than in that news piece. I’m not sure how protective mine would be of my person and, as I said, I’m unclear there are any benefits to being territorial about my apartment, but that’s not really his job. What is his job, in addition to being a playful buddy is just to be alert, giving some additional situational awareness, both at home and out walking.
I don’t even have a watch dog. Mine will not bark at an intruder. She’s that friendly with people. I had one golden that would bark, but none have been protection dogs or even very good watch dogs.
Of course, where I live, robberies are very uncommon.
My Border Collies have surprised me regarding their protective habits. Some 20 years ago the neighbors inherited a rather nasty German Shepherd mix that would start fence fights with my two dogs. Save for the noise this was harmless until the neighbors came over for a swim and their dog tunneled into our yard.
Their dog came barreling down the hill right for me and was only feet away when my Black Jack appeared at full steam on a tangential course and blasted their dog to the ground. Both ended up with punctures to the neck and plenty of fur flew, but meek gentle Black Jack kept the GS-chow-mix on the ground until it relented.
The ordeal was rather horrifying at the time, although everyone came out fine. And against better judgment, my father and I were quite proud that our little boy won the fight. Once the neighbors left and he came down off the adrenaline, he sure did milk it for all it was worth.
Dublin, too, has demonstrated some surprising protection instincts. My father was asleep on a den couch that is feet from the back door when his brother who had not been to the house since we had Dublin, came in the door without knocking or ringing the bell and Dublin backed him into a corner and didn’t relent until I heard the baritone growl and came running.
Border Collie males are generally softer than the females, so these fleeting displays of bravado were notable.
Interesting, because male golden retrievers also tend to be much softer than the females.
I wonder if breeding for hyper-trainability might have something to do with these gender differences. I had a female golden that was very good with other dogs, but she was the undisputed leader. And because she was benign ruler, the other dogs didn’t make much fuss.
I’m laughing at what my golden has been doing all afternoon, which is playing with the neighbors’ young boxer and new golden/Labrador cross.
I do not know if any of my dogs would protect my person or not. Unauthorized strangers in the yard, yes, I have several that would go after a stranger. The Afghans and Azawakh particularly are suspicious of strangers and very guardy. Azawakh have been bred specifically for that quality, the Afghans, not so much. I’ve known several Azawakh who would bite first and ask questions later.
I thought Afghans would guard camps, but maybe I am confused.
Guarding is part of their traditional role. The whole Saluki/Afghan/Tazi/Taigan complex has a traditional role of guarding, in addition to hunting. None of my Salukis are particularly guardy, though they do bark some. Of course, you’d have to have a serious case of stupid to try to come in my yard unauthorized.
I like that clip! The comparison between the trained K9 and the family pets is a great one, and I think they did a great job with that.
A friend’s Dal was actually very protective of her owner and our friend felt that Cera would bite if she had to, but thankfully that never happened. Apparently one day they were out walking; a man was stalking them and moving closer, and when he was right up next to them, he asked if the dog was a biter. Cera turned her head towards him, touched her muzzle to his hand and all but said “Make my day,” according to the account. Of course, our friend said “She might” and also brought out her pepper spray, so he beat it. Who knows what actually WOULD have happened, but we like to think she would’ve taken him on.
This is a great video with some wonderful snippets of information about personal protection dogs (of course in “making the situation real,” they do go overboard a bit, but the dog needs to learn to bite through any potential distraction
There’s one in regard to home protection, but the rub is that the handler is always present to give the command if the person is safe or not. So the dog ultimately still ends up not making it’s own decision…which is probably exactly what these people want. Unless it is very well-trained or acts on instinct (ie can tell the bad guy from the meter reader), the average pet dog should not be biting anyone, much less by it’s own choice.
I agree with Rinalia though, a dog that barks is going to be the best route, along with some common-sense security measures. There’s no way of knowing if it’ll bite anyway, unless it’s like the house a few blocks away from mine that has the K9 police car in the driveway and the police dog warning signs on the fence. I’m not a big fan of the “Beware of dog” sign…just shows that, if there really is something to fear, either someone has a liability waiting to happen or it better be in some serious training so that the sign can come down one day.
I wonder how much truth there is in this story?
http://k9blog.blogspot.com/2003_06_01_archive.html#10552772391620117#10552772391620117
I’ve heard this story before!
I believe it was even parodied on MADTV.
Just to add to the discussion …
A sound Standard Poodle is typically an excellent guard dog. Much to the astonishment of most people. This quality is especially surprising given the Standard Poodle’s simultaneous general sociability and reliability with people, including children. [Needless to say, there are “bad” Standard Poodles out there, bred by unethical breeders and/or raised by deficient handlers – as there are with any breed.]
All of my Standard Poodles have been excellent protectors of the home. They have also been completely non-agressive, othwerwise, and completely reliable with children.
My current Standard Poodle has indicated that he would also protect me away from the home. He too is a non-agressive dog completely reliable with children.
Over the years, I’ve had a few encounters with my Belgian Sheepdogs — who aren’t generally considered to be in the “class” that Malinois are regarding protection. In the first instance, I was living in a bad area of Sacramento and met up with a gang. My then Belgian put up what I call the “Dirty Harry” display — a move forward, bounce up& down — they crossed the street. Years later, a foolish UPS delivery person decided not to leave a package on my front porch, but on the back — which was inside my dog yard. They relayed to me that my dog got up on the porch between him and the door and wasn’t going to move, so they wanted me to know they had to leave the package at the gate (some people just have no brains. The yard is chain link, so UPS guy could clearly see the dogs + the “no trespassing” sign before he entered). I’ve twice had my dogs get between me and charging cattle (I work livestock) and “deal” with the cattle enough to stop and turn the animal around. And I found the video on personal protection very interesting, because it’s the same approach the ex-military trainer used to help me train my Nyjel years ago. Belgians dissuade simply by their wolfy looks and the black color intimidates more people than a brown dog. Most will at least “alarm bark” and probably about 50% will do more if there’s an intruder. Like my “porch guy” though, it isn’t always biting. A display (charge & bark or just blocking the way in or out) often works very well. Belgians aren’t for those unwilling to train and manage them.
VR. Peggy Richter
Are you referring to the Groenendale, with the black color?
One trainer once told me to use the word “Easy” as a cue to get all revved up and ready to spring into action…that way, it looks like yo’ure trying to calm down an uncontrollable dog. When the danger’s past, using a stop/cease command can just calm the dog again.
In retriever field training, “easy” is the cue word that communicates the following: “remember that this was a short bird–don’t over-run it–that’s right, good, right in front of you.”
It’s a great cue word, because it sounds like it means–most field people say it real soft and long, eeeeeeeeeeezy, like “it’s all good, it’s right there short, take it easy, relax, it’s cool.”
My old Lab had an excellent sense of danger when it came to me personally–friends, known or unknown, were greeted with a wag; strangers and the strange were carefully watched; and the truly suspect were greeted with stony silence stiff body and, on command (a whispered “Who’s that?” which I taught him as a puppy when I lived in a not-so-nice urban neighborhood) a bark when inside or a low grumble when out walking. He could not have cared less, however, about property if I wasn’t present, and he was supremely confident that no one would dream of hurting him.
My current Lab is good-natured to a fault, but alert and thoughtful–I wouldn’t call him protective in the least, but you never know what a large intact male will do when he perceives a threat.
My flat-coat female is dominant and a stickler for control, and if a person surprises her by not behaving according to her expectations, he or she is met with a fierce warning bark, and I while I wouldn’t count on it, I wouldn’t really be surprised if there were follow-through if I were not there or unable to tell her to stand down and she continued to perceive a threat.
She is a mush-pile when she is confident that all is right in her world. I didn’t have her as a puppy, and it was work to convince her that if I’m around, I’ll take the lead in the control department. She is definitely on the more assertive end of the flat-coat spectrum.
My first golden was like your flat-coat, but only with other dogs. She got along with them and would play with them, but she had to be the boss. She would bark when someone would come, but then she’d get something for the visitor. The other two dogs were worthless as watch dogs, including the dog that was half boxer.
When it comes to dogs, Miss Raven will happily submit to most males unless they are neurotic or clearly “off,” but with other girls, especially intact girls, there needs to be a confident grown-up in charge (and even then…). As more than one wise dog friend has said, “They don’t call them bitches for nothin’.”
I actually was having this exact discussion with my agility group today. I’ve always believed that GRs are supposed to be as Retrieverman describes, though goodness knows, I’ve met more than one bad GR. Several people asserted that it was very appropriate and correct that their GR’s barked/growled at people and/or dogs that approached their car. They asked me if my APBTs would.. and didn’t really believe me when I said “no.” Sadly, we got distracted by all the food at our party and didn’t take advantage of our opportunity to conduct a scientific test. ;-)
(also, one of the GR people described her dogs fence fighting with the neighbor dog, just for fun…)
BTW, I”ve read that lawyers don’t recommend “beware of dog” signs, because it can be an admission that you think your dog is dangerous. Better is “dog in yard” and/or “no trespassing” signs
also btw, our discussion was in the context of bemoaning the ineptitude of local handler of a gorgeous Malinois. The dog is extremely driven and extremely “hard” (typical Mal) and the handler is completely out of her league and clueless. We all predict something really horrible in the way of a dog or person (probably her) getting badly bitten. How do you give a clue to someone like that?
Sadly it will probably require the dog taking a crack at someone for her to wise up (assuming the relationship can be saved at that point and she’s willing to put the work into fixing things instead of dumping the dog). I don’t know why people want breeds that they’re physically or temperamentally unsuited to handling, but it happens all the time.
They pick them because they’re ‘pretty’.
Yes, I suppose it really is that simple. None of my calculation about “is the dog suited to my lifestyle in terms of temperament and exercise requirements?”. Picking the right dog also means being realistic about yourself and your lifestyle. I’d never deliberately set out to get a Malinois or Dutch shepherd, for example. Most are too high drive for my liking — and I say that as the owner of an Eastern European working line GSD!