The above photo and the following description come from The Encyclopaedia of Sport by Henry Charles Howard, 18th Earl of Suffolk, 11th Earl of Berkshire:
The Irish water-spaniel is a dog in every respect the antipodes of any other of the varieties of spaniel, excepting only an animal known as the English water-spaniel, of which sight has now been lost, but which, when in existence, might be considered a link between the curlycoated liver-coloured retriever and the Irish water-spaniel. The early history of the Irish water-spaniel is such that no authority has ventured to say much about his origin; all that is known about it is that there were at one time two, if not more, varieties in the north and south of Ireland, and that the type recognised in the south has been taken as the modern one. About the same height as a retriever, in colour he is rich liver with a puce shade. He has the appearance of a strong and dashing dog, with quaint and very intelligent expression, the quaintness being emphasised by the peculiar topknot which falls between and over the eyes, and hides a capacious skull, which is somewhat domed. The face is long, square in muzzle, and perfectly smooth; the nose liver in colour; the coat consists of short crisp curls all over the body, and round and down the legs to the feet, which are large and round. The inside of the hocks to the ground should, however, be smooth in a specimen of absolutely perfect coat, and there should be but little hair on the tail, which is thick at the base, somewhat short, and tapering to a point. Amber eyes are admissible, but work on wild fowl in marshy ground, but next to useless in covert on account of his coat. Instances have been known where he has been taught to set game, and back like a pointer or setter, but they have been very rare; indeed, his capacity for retrieving is his primary qualification (pg. 321).
The mention of using these dogs as index dogs is quite interesting, and it points to a possible relationship between this dog and the various setters that are native to Ireland. The proto-Irish and Irish red and white setters are very different from these dogs, but it would have made sense that they would have been crossed with this dog. It is the aboriginal retriever of Ireland and was often called the “Irish retriever” in many historical accounts.
I am not among those who consider this dog to be ancient. I think its origins lie with the Barbet family, as do all retrievers and water spaniels. As we have seen, modern day crosses with retrievers and the poodle occasionally produce dogs that have some features in common with the IWS. It is possible– even likely– that this dog evolved from crossing the old Irish setter with the now extinct English rough water dog– a kind of heavy Barbet.
It is not even remotely parsimonious to assume that this breed has an ancient origin or that it is a relative of the Afghan hound, which has anomalous coat genetics that are very different from Irish water spaniels.
Of course, the official breed club has story about the ancient origin of this dog. The AKC’s The Complete Dog, which contains the standards of all of its recognized breeds and their lore, has a claim that an unnamed “Harvard archaeologicial expedition” in which the remains of a dog with a “clearly defined stop” were found in Ireland that was dated to the seventh or eighth century. Those were skeletons, no doubt, and no one would have any clue what the coat or behavior of these dogs were like. Dogs with clearly defined stops have existed for thousands of years, as have brachycephalic dogs. That dog could have easily been a mongrel hound, but we don’t know for sure. And to claim that this dog was an Irish water spaniel is utter folly– way, way too much speculation. The book repeats the antiquity of dog skulls with clearly defined skulls by pointing out that similar dog skulls have been found in the Lake Districts of Central Europe, which date to the Bronze Age. The description takes these as evidence of the antiquity of the IWS, when they are nothing more than evidence for the antiquity of dogs with this skull. The book then lays it on even thicker by claiming that there are dogs in Roman carvings that look like Irish water spaniels, which sounds oddly like the claim about the poodle on the Roman coin.
The book continues through many claims about old Irish water spaniels. Not a single primary source is given. A Medieval source about “King McCarthy II” claiming that there were whip-tailed spaniels which were found south of the River Shannon. I am assuming this text refers to the Kings of Desmond, who were the Mac Carthaig Dynasty. I would like to see the citation on this source, because spaniels were around in the Medieval Period.
However, the earliest mention of any water spaniel that can be verified is Caius, who wrote of the “water Spaniell or Finder” in his Of English Dogges. That text dates to 1570, and thus, the suggestion that Sir Robert Cecil sent a water spaniel to the King of France in 1598 is more credible, as is Topsell’s description of a “Spagnel” with a “naked tail.”
The aboriginal Irish setting spaniel would have been around at this time. In fact, Caius mentions setters in Of English Dogges.
Rough water dogs were also around this time, and it would make sense that one could create a very similar from setters crossed with water dogs.
The evidence provided that these dogs are ancient is very weak. Not a single genetic study has put the Irish water spaniel among the ancient dogs.
This particular dog’s origins as an improved, pure breed began with Justin McCarthy, who started a line of water spaniels with his dog named Boatswain. That was in the 1830’s, and the records of those dogs are relatively clear. It is McCarthy’s strain of the Southern Irish water spaniel that has survived in the modern breed.
And that’s what a careful reading of history can provide.
Of course, it’s alway more fun to think your dog is from some ancient strain.
I think I’m going to start a rumor a recent dig in Egypt shows that shows clear archaeological evidence that golden retrievers were used by Cleopatra. (Here’s my evidence: a mummified Egyptian dog with what appears to be gold hair, a broad skull, and floppy ears. I’ve seen some field-line goldens carry their tails like that, too!)
Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And the burden of proof is upon the person making the claim. Parsimony is still an important principle.
The notion that Irish water spaniels have their origin in early modern Europe is more parsimonious than the claim that they were around in the Bronze Age.
Dog historians: Stop making fantastic claims. Stop.
Please stop.





We’ve done this dance before. No, I can’t provide a citation, but water spaniels are mentioned as tribute in Roman records.
Today’s IWS occasionally have setter patterning on their front legs. BD Maxwell has brought up the possible Afghan connection.
As none of this can be verified, let’s just allow that there are different possibilities. YOu can believe your myth & I’ll choose to believe in mine.
Yes. We have.
But I asked for evidence.
My claims are not myths. They are based upon what is most likely. How many assumptions do I have to make to suggest this claim?
Not as many as you do.
I’d like to find something by a classics scholar or someone who studies Medieval Gaelic texts who could corroborate these claims.
What is the Latin for water spaniel?
What is it in Old or Middle Irish?
How do I know they are talking about that kind of water spaniel and not the poodle-type water dogs?
How do I know they aren’t talking about land spaniel?
See? These things require many more assumptions, besides the glaring one that only Irish water spaniels have clear stops. That’s actually a diagnostic feature that tells nothing more than we are looking at a domestic dog and not a wolf.
My is not a myth. It is educated speculation based upon what is likely– it violates fewer assumptions.
What has been stated in the AKC Complete Dog Book would not stand in any peer reviewed journal of historiography.
And where is the genetic evidence that says IWS are that old?
Remains of dogs with exactly the same phenotype as modern elkhounds have been pulled out of bogs in Norway, but the modern elkhound breeds are not that old. Just because an old dog has the same phenotype and comes from the same region doesn’t mean that they are the same breed or that they are the ancestors of the modern dog. IWS don’t even have the remains like the elkhounds do.
BTW, the Afghan hound did not always have a profuse coat and the genetics for that coat are quite dramatically different from the IWS’s. The breeds are no more related than IWS are to pugs.
“Just because an old dog has the same phenotype and comes from the same region doesn’t mean that they are the same breed or that they are the ancestors of the modern dog.”
::covers ears::
LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!
The coat in IWS is caused by the long haired mutation. The coat in Afghan hounds is not. A connection is highly unlikely. Please see the “Coat Variation in the Domestic Dog Is Governed by Variants in Three Genes” study.
Perhaps there is more than one factor that causes “long hair”…as there appear to be several types and patterns of “long hair” in dogs?
It’s veeeery curious, because when I breed a feathered Saluki, which is the standard long hair mutation, to an Afghan, the Saluki pattern of hair has an obvious affect on the amount and length of coat in the pups. It is not a case where one gene is dominant over the other. I am wondering whether the Afghan gene is a further mutation of the long coat gene. There may be some kind of modifier affecting coat in Afghans as well, because the affect is cumulative; if you want to keep the coat to a moderate level, you must breed in sparsely coated dogs. Racing Afghans and the Russian Aboriginal Afghans do this and maintain a coat that is much truer to the country of origin dogs, which have a range of coats even within the same area.
You seem to lack the ability to agree to disagree.
When people make dubious claims, I can’t just do that.
It’s not in my DNA.
The downfall of Western Civilization is happening because dubious claims do not get the scrutiny they deserve.
Oh, but I dunt see dat.
If it is merely on interpretation of the evidence, you may agree to disagree.
Basing an argument on evidence that either cannot be produced, or is of dubious origin, there is no agreeing to disagree.
On the TV program “It’s Me or the Dog” there was a dog said to be a Gordon Setter [?]…but it was a whole-colored rusty brown (not red), with an obvious top-knot and semi-curly hair all around the legs, very much like an IWS, complete to rat tail and bare patches on pasterns. Dog’s problem appeared to be obsessive-compulsive disorder.
An IWS breeder some years ago told me that if the IWS is put on a thyroid supplement, the coat pattern changes. Sounds intriguing…
I remember seeing that very dog and thinking the same thing!
Wasn’t he the one who pointed water or something like that?
The dog was obsessed with reflections and moving lights– on glass, on water, whatever. Dog was odd in more than one respect.