I love the folk ethology behind this one.
This dog (“wolf hybrid”) hates Cesar.
If I were this wolf hybrid, I would probably kill myself.
The first time I dealt with insane people on this blog »
Cesar whispering
March 15, 2010 by retrieverman
29 Responses
If *I* were that wolf hybrid, I’d kill Cesar.
You know the more I watch Cesar and the more I read, the more ticked I get. The only professional who has reacted in the same way I have is Victoria Stillwell.
That animal belongs in a wolf hybrid sanctuary.
Holy mother of pearl.
It’s something, isn’t it?
Wow. I have never watched Cesar’s how before, as I don’t get the Nat Geo channel. That was stunningly wrong. The man has no clue what he’s talking about! To me it looked like that wolfdog was temporarily giving up and biding his time. And he DOES hate Cesar!
I am also a Stilwell fan. She’s right that people are the problem most of the time. (That dog could be an exception – that was no Malamute!)
You need to wait for the switch? The one in which oxygen deprivation knocks the dog on his side?
One of the biggest problems I have with Cesar is highlighted nicely in this clip: Is this something you want your mother, son, father, daughter to be doing? It’s not something *I* want to be doing! If the average Joe cannot USE the technique safely and effectively, the technique should not be marketed in such a high profile way.
I can’t believe people let him do that to their dogs. He could have killed that dog or severely damaged his trachea.
And I’m sorry, but how on earth is gasping for oxygen an indication of “being dominant”?!? He cannot be serious.
No. Gasping for oxygen is being “calm submissive.”
But what do I know?
I don’t know how to train dogs!
Ah, well he should work on exuding more zen, less desperate gasping!
Exactly my point! The Average Joe isn’t using CM’s “techniques” (cough, cough) correctly. Not that this is something that should be used, ever. But imagine Average Joe dangling his Chi from a choke because it growled at Grandma. ARGH!
The “technique” is not being marketed. The “technique” is being used to keep Cesar and the bystanders safe. How would you have handled it?
What is being marketed, besides the man himself, is the idea that dogs are able to be rehabilitated. Offers to just load the dog into a station wagon and have him killed notwithstanding, this show gives people hope and understanding that their problems with their dogs can be fixed rather than having to kill or get rid of the dog.
That knowledge and understanding is a gift of great value.
I question whether it is a dog or not.
I think it’s a wolf hybrid that really shouldn’t be kept by the normal dog owning public.
Someone like Lane, who has a lot of expertise (more than Cesar), can handle these animals.
I would agree with you on the wolf hybrid issue.
oh, you need to find the clip where a dachshund is “aggressive” and snapping at its owners. Cesar muzzles the poor creature and alpha rolls it. In the course of discussion, turns out the dog was in a car accident… and you can see the way the owners grab at the dog in “affection”. Just maybe the dog was HURTING and telling its owners to stop mauling it? Needless to say, Cesar does not suggest taking the dog to a vet…
I watched the episode where he teaches some goldens not to jump up.
Do you know how easy that is to break without poking them?
this is the clip that I found on another blog. I will give CM credit for being brave. The dog/wolf/whatever tagged him several times and he did keep his head, can you imagine if a child were walking him? The kid would never have a chance. The animal .might. be good for CM from this point on but I kind of doubt if it would transfer so what good has this done? If “rehabbing” doesn’t stick across the board, is it working?
What is so fucking wrong with TRYING positive methods FIRST, Cesar?
Like the wolf/dog – that is why I hate him to. He’s a stubborn ass who is destroying the part of the dog that makes it a dog.
I would love love love to see this man in conference with many other leaders in canine training (I’m thinking McConnell, Pryor, Donaldson, Dunbar, Stillwell). There is much to be learned from them in terms of the human-canine condition and relationship. Control is only as good as you have it over yourself. Cesar appears to be compensating for something…
“What is so fucking wrong with TRYING positive methods FIRST, Cesar?”
Wait, what is so wrong about loading dogs (including wahtever the hell that thing is) that bite people in the back of the station wagon and having them put to sleep that afternoon?”
There are too many non-agressive dogs that need homes to waste time on animals like this! Animal SUFFERING, not simply animal life should be held in the highest reagard.
Sanctuary? You have to be kidding!
When I start my Dog shelter. We will reduce suffering by running a triage. Fighting breed?: Turned off. Bite a person? Turned off. Coydog? turned off.
Terrier that tore its clueless owner’s apartment carpet apart and defecated on the floor while left alone all day?: You get a TON of our resources and time to be found a home.
Field bred gun dog or coon hound purchased by someone that didnt know it requires 1.5 hrs of exercise a day?: You get a lot of resources too.
I really love dogs, but they’re just dogs, we’re not trying to save their souls. I they’re not going to have a reasonably happy life, just turn them off.
There are wolf-hybrid sanctuaries that can take these animals. They have nothing in them but wolf hybrids. They are kept like wolves.
To me, it’s either that solution or yours.
But if I say that I’m committing heresy against no kill.
But I don’t think I am.
No kill only applies to adoptable animals.
Here’s a wolf/wolf hybrid sanctuary. http://www.wolfsanctum.org/
The animals aren’t expected to be dogs here, which is good for them.
I’m torn in the same way about No-Kill… because there is a point where spending thousands of dollars and months of ‘rehab’ on a single devastated dog could probably be used to save several less broken dogs… but the argument against that is that it’s just another slippery slope to ‘killing for convenience’ which is what most shelters do now. I really don’t know how one would fairly assess the line that separates ‘adoptable’ from ‘unadoptable’ in some cases.
“What is so fucking wrong with TRYING positive methods FIRST, Cesar?”
This is a joke, right?
I suppose he *could* have whipped out a squeaky toy and asked the dog to sit. That and a chunk of string cheese would have earned him a trip to the emergency room (possibly accompanied by the bystander and her dog) and the dog a one-way ride to the vet.
Sometimes, there is no try. There is only do or not do. There wasn’t much room for “not do” in this situation.
I couldn’t see this video(as usual–sigh), but from the gist of the conversation, I wanted to add a comment or two. One BIG problem with wolf hybrids–IF they are indeed much wolf, is that they do not easily(or at all!) transfer their loyalties to anyone who did not raise them. Exceptions? I’m sure there are, but as a rule of thumb, that is usually the case. No one should even consider getting one if they are not going to be 110% committed(AND DONE THEIR RESEARCH!), and sadly, of course, how many people are even a fraction that committed to their domestic dogs? Whatever problems are being corrected here(?), if the owners are not going to be capable of doing it, then it is wasted time(in my opinion). And, sadly, wolf hybrid sanctuaries are like anything–some might be good and ethical, but there are bad and incompetent ones of those, too–I’ve seen some! The people that run them sometimes use them to solicit money from the gullible public, and then turn around and SELL their “rescues” to MORE unsuspecting idiots! I knew of one that actually continued to breed and sell pups from rescued animals–which I thought was rather contradicting the whole “sanctuary” concept!! So, anyone out there thinking about reliquishing their wolf cross to one of these places–like anything, DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST! I have done more to discourage(without saying DON’T DO IT!) people from getting a wolf dog cross by simply telling them what to expect, and how committed in training, socializing, and containment they need to be. And I must again disagree with you a bit, Retrieverman, on the comment about how in sanctuaries wolf hybrids are not expected to be “like dogs”–I’m sure you are saying(?) that they are no longer being kept by people with unrealistic expectations of them being just like any domestic breed(any domestic breed SHOULD be well researched FIRST by prospective owners, too, of course!), but I like to emphasise that a well-socialized and trained wolf dog(and IT CAN BE DONE!!!) that can have the freedom and experiences and life of an ideal domestic dog’s life, is highly preferable than life as a backyard zoo animal, or being stuck in a sanctuary the remainder of it’s life. I cannot understand how people feel getting to go places and do interesting things–even if they must comply with a few simple commands to do so, is degrading, but many people into wolves and hybrids think like that(in my experiences)–sometimes I’m SURE it is simply an excuse for not putting in the time and the work necessary(but of course, every case is different). Do such romantics(if it isn’t slackness) think wild wolves don’t have to follow “rules” of their pack, and face all manner of limitations and adversities in the wild? A dog’s life can be GREAT! Even for a wolf dog! And of course this doesn’t even get into exactly HOW MUCH wolf the animals are. What if they are only a quarter-or-so wolf?(3/4’s dog?). One of their GRANDPARENTS was a wolf, in other words? Is this animal not going to be expected to behave more like a dog, since it is 75% dog? And ironically, a LOT of so-called wolf hybrids have little or no wolf, that I have encountered over the years–I have some funny stories of sadly delusioned people who spent a LOT of money on an animal purported to be MOSTLY wolf, that showed zero wolflike characteristics! This is incredibly common! I know which life I would prefer, if I were in such an animal’s place…..
Lane: I am more fascinated than anything: what do people do with wolf dog crosses? I didn’t know people did stuff like this on purpose. I actually thought these animals were cases of sled dogs getting loose in the north woods at the wrong time and coming home pregnant.
I’ve had a lot of friends say: The next dog I’m getting is a ______. I’ve never heard anyone say “wog/dolf”.
Bill; I will try to answer this as best I can, but the variables would fill a coupla books! I will also happily continue this dialogue as long as you wish, and answer your, and anyone else’s questions on this subject–I have been involved with it up to my neck for many years, and have a wide perspective on it, and like to help inform people the TRUTH about wolf hybrids whenever I can.(There is way more B. S. out there than truth on this subject, that’s for sure!) However, after today(this post) I will be away from work, and near no computers for 3 days, so it may take me awhile to get back to answering more questions, but I will. There have always been wolf dogs, as long as there have been wolves and dogs(and undoubtedly always will be, purposefully bred by man or not!), most breedings in the historical past were probably random and depended on specific circumstances. Some purposeful breedings were done in captivity by early scientists for studies’ sakes. But around the late 1970’s and early 1980’s, a real wolf hybrid fad took place, and thousands of them got bred for “pets”, and at one time were more common in “For Sale” adds than many popular breeds! Of course, many were not actually wolf crosses, either–the uninformed public can be rather easily duped on this score! So other than as exotic pets, they were serving no real “purpose” for the majority of people that were aquiring them. The problems with impulsive ignorant people getting such sensitive, physically formidable, time consuming animals(with even stronger predatory instincts than most other dogs) is obvious. The fact that a lot of money could be made(or many people THOUGHT could be made!) compounded the problem, and a lot of questionable and unethical practices arose in connection with the phenomenon, just as with popular fad dog breeds–poorly bred, dishonest representation of the animals’ actual backgrounds(higher wolf percentages equalled more money), misrepresentation of what REALLY to expect from the animals(the TRUTH is NOT a good selling tactic in this case!), and on and on. A travesty, in other words. The media had a FIELD DAY with it–I have never seen such biased, negative prejudiced reporting on ANYTHING in my life–there is NOTHING, I don’t think, more controversial than anything to do with wolves! The dog people community joined right in villifying the animals–most wanted NO CONNECTION between purebred dogs and wolf hybrids, of course. Also, wolf hybrids were OUTSELLING many purebred “tough guy” macho breeds, and I did hear some rumors, and see some reports of the AKC jumping on the anti-wolf-hybrid band wagon, for finance incentives, as well as the whole politically correct ethical reasons! A quagmire! And make no mistake, there have been people mauled and killed by wolf hybrids–it is usually National News whenever it happens! But suprisingly, if you check the ACTUAL dog related deaths and maulings, wolf hybrids in that time period, popular as they were, were still less than many other popular potentially agressive breeds! I am personally AMAZED that there were NOT MORE, some of the stupid stuff I have seen and heard done with the animals!…To Be Continued…
…..HOWEVER, despite the fact that most people who got the animals probably had no business doing so, and that it was a terrible “fad” for both people and especially the animals involved(and it seems to have petered out a lot, although some wolf hybrids bred for exotic pets are definetely around), I tend to be one of those nit-pickers who INSIST that people realize that it is not the ANIMALS that are “screwy”, “treacherous”, “intractable”, “savage”, “untrainable”, “untrustworthy”, “useless” etc. etc., but the PEOPLE who MADE THEM THAT WAY!!!!!!! I do not like to see perfectly noble, potentially wonderful animals of ANY kind(in the right circumstances) villified for human stupidity and prejudice! I have been accused of being somewhat unrealistic like “Hagrid” in “Harry Potter” for my defense of underdog animals…..I got most of my animals, though I paid money for most of them, as “rescues” in that I knew if I didn’t take them, they would have had no life. I did not get mine for “macho” or “show-off” reasons, though I am constantly accused of that(a common cliche’ of wolf hybrid ownership). Perhaps my aquiring them was influenced somewhat by romantic notions of wolf dogs from many stories of them I had read, but it was balanced by real knowledge of wolves and primitive type dogs, a fascination and desire to see for myself what I could learn about the similarities and differences between wolves and dogs, no desire to try to make them into anything they didn’t want to be, and a fierce dedication to stick by them no matter what, and do whatever I had to do to give them a good life. My lifestyle and where I lived was also well suited to wolf hybrid “ownership”(I have also been accused of having a bit of wolf blood myself, and of practicing Lycanthropy! Undoubtedly in the Middle Ages I would have been burned to the stake, and I have barely escaped it recently!), which most peoples’ are not. I also felt that wolf dogs would be excellent and sensible woods companions(as they were historically for Native Americans and Frontiersmen), and in this, I was right. But trying to manage them in more modern, civilized surroundings WAS quite challenging, to say the least! And always, my greatest problem in keeping them, were other peoples’ prejudiced attitudes! Somebody thinks they are a true Liberal in philosophy? Let me “test” them with a wolf hybrid, and I’ll tell you if they are truly, deeply open-minded! It is little wonder people have such negative attitudes, because of the severely prejudiced campaign launched by the media and everyone else(including dog people AND wolf people!), negativity(and mostly erroneous assumptions) is all the general public ever hears/reads! But I know better because I have what most people don’t have on the subject–actual hands-on(and successful! despite the odds and many barriers thrown up by the “establishment”!)experience! And I kept, over the years, and eventually all in one pack(along with numerous other dogs which created EXCELLENT comparisons!) a variety of “percentages”of hybrid–2 low–25%wolf or so; 2 mid-content(but not first generation), and one fairly high(75%) animal–so I kinda ran the gamut. I haven’t personally raised a pure wolf, but I have been around quite a few, that were kept as pets, and in my work in zoos. I learned so much, enjoyed the heck out of my animals, and I miss them deeply now that they are gone(don’t worry, I still have LOTS of dogs to keep me company! But I miss them ALL when they pass, of course). My wolf hybrids were faithful, well-trained, and dependable to their last breaths, and all lived to be quite old but one. So, in their honor(though I’ll be the first to agree most people SHOULD NOT TRY to get them!) I do tend to hackle up a bit(and maybe growl under my breath) whenever anyone lumps them ALL, regardless of “percentage”, upbringing, and environment, into one, tiny, always negative category! There ARE good things about wolf hybrids that can be useful, IF humans were sensible in their breeding/homing of them(which is almost never the case…)–but most modern civilized folk are not going to see this, as they have no use for an intense “woods dog”….To Be Continued?……Sorry, Retrieverman, hope you don’t mind all this rambling…….
Poodle-wolf crosses: http://retrieverman.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/poodle-wolf.jpg
…And I bet, in the right hands, those could be GREAT animals! I really got to go now–be back Friday(if I’m not shot in the woods by one of those “screwy, aggressive, bloodthirsty” humans!
Lane,
Thank your for the details of your experience. I really appreciate it. Fascinating.