Jose Cruz of Chatham Hill Dogs sent me these photos of a working “Chatham Hill retriever,” a cross between a flat-coated retriever and an American cocker spaniel. “Lucky” has proven to be quite a good duck dog.
Jose writes:
He went on this hunt along side a working Golden and a working Labrador. This working Chattie was the better of the three at doing the job. And the owner is extremely proud of the fact that this guy at half the size of the big dogs is a very good retriever. Please note he is only one of about a dozen of our “Working” Chatties in real world situations, not a hunt trial or trophy contest. And that where I’ve always focused. If the dog is a necessity then it will adapt to the challenges it is presented. Dogs are that resilient.
Jose has caught a lot of hell from the flat-coated retriever community. He currently also breeds from yellow flat-coated retrievers, which is a very bad thing to do in flat-coats.
He’s also bred this line of spaniel retrievers.
This dog resembles a photo I once saw of one of the last English water spaniels. It was black and very rugged looking.
It looked very much like Lucky.
How common are yellow flat-coats? I always thought that was something that occured in the breed’s past; wouldn’t it have been bred out by now? Where does he obtain his breeding stock?
I’ve seen other “odd” colored dogs – blue GSMD and red Rotties, even a red collie, but they’re very rare.
Ehhh. Jana, the Yellow Flatties are as common as the Yellow Labradors If left up to fate. Most breeders test for the yellow recessive and breed away from it. My family just does the opposite and tests for the Yellow recessive and bred for it. They are just as viable a genetic resource as any other FCR. So for my family, it just makes no sense to forget them or eliminate them from the breeding population. In fact it may offer a slight advantage over the rest to include them. So we do and have yet to see any proof otherwise.
Is your little guy Lucky a first-generation cross? I like his head – definitely has that spaniel look. My family had a Cocker in the early 80’s – your typical pet cocker that looked more like the dogs of the 1950’s than the modern show Cocker. He wasn’t a very nice dog, but I do have a soft spot for spaniels.
It seems like a shame to dump dogs from the gene pool based only on color, not temperament, health, or even conformation. Especially when the breed is small in numbers, like the Flat coats.
This guy “Lucky” is an F1 50/50 cross of FCR and American Cocker Spaniel. We have F1b and F2b crosses as well also in the field (real world working) not pretend and make believe. So, typically the majority of the Crosses look more FCR/Golden in phenotype. However there are some that throw more Spaniel-ish in coat, although not as heavy. The F2b crosses look spot on for mini- Flat Coats with 75% FCR in the mix. The F1b look more like shorter Golden Retrievers.
Either way, the temperament and biddability for Chatties are high on the list with a versatile companion animal. We have Hybrids as Service dogs, Disability assistance and guide dogs, Certified Therapy Dogs and many real world miniature hunting retrievers.
The separation of the Yellow FCR was mostly done as a way to make the distinction between a Golden Retriever and an FCR back in the days. But, with how things have changed with the look of the Golden in the show rings, its just makes no sense any more, in fact it never made sense even back in the days. Even from a perspective of human vanity its clearly just a stupid practice. Field Goldens closely resemble FCR in look, the only difference in my opinion from being around both breeds and types… The coat on the Golden Retrievers shed much more than on FCR. And the field Goldens around where I live are are typically nasty in temperament. Literally I saw one take a neighbor’s small King Charles Spaniel in it’s jaws and shake it violently like a rag doll, resulting in severe internal bleeding and numerous vet bills along with visits and fines from the Dog Warden. Not what we have come to believe of a typical Golden Retriever. But, hey not all dogs are like that.
I know American Cockers once had a reputation as biters, but that was over 40 years ago when they were the number one dog in popularity here in the US, the status now held by Labradors. Nowadays, I don’t see this in my Cockers and Spaniels as a typical temperament descriptor. Again its a matter of opinion based on the exposure to the breeds and our own experience. But, certainly a nasty temperament can turn up in any breed. It just seems the breeds with more people breeding off the cuff and winging it is where this occurs the most. And that’s usually with the more popular dog breeds that are labeled as “family” pets and the “lets try this crowd” build upon that reputation. There’s a reason why the point was brought up on a nationally televised show called “Dogs 101″ that in Canada the Golden retriever is the top 3 biter. There’s some advantage to being a not so popular, obscure or rare breed.
To hell w/ any such “community”. If the dogs are doing what he wants them to do well and are healthy and happy, thats all that counts. Its none of their damn business what kinds of dogs he chooses to use in his breeding program.
NIce to see someone breeding dogs for use in real life and not just trials. These guys look good to me.