Canis lupus hominis

Posted in domestic animals | Tagged cat, Persian cats | 15 Comments

15 Responses

1. on November 5, 2012 at 4:34 am bearcoatpei

   Poor little things. Persian cats are not far off being the direct equivalent of Pekingese dogs.

   
   
2. on November 5, 2012 at 9:25 am kittenz

   You’re right on that, bearcoatpei! Show -type Persians ARE a lot like Pekes. Some of them are so deformeed they can barely eat!. And It’s not just Persians -what show breeders have done to the Siamese cats over the past century is equally astonishing. Especially for awhile in the late 1960s/early 1970s, they went for a very extreme, narrow head. Siamese are supposed to have a long, wedge-shaped face, but they interpreted it to mean a narrow wedge. Some of the cats from that time looked like they could stick their head into a pop bottle. The show Siamese you see today aren’t quite as extreme, but they are still too extreme IMO. You can still find the old-style Siamese; many people who love the breed became alarmed at the way it was headed and breed for the original type. Show breeders used to call them “appleheads” derisively, and the nickname stuck. I prefer the term “traditional Siamese”.

   And more and more breed-specific health problems are turning up in purebred cats, too, especially as the physical forms of the cats are beginning to change in extreme ways. Just a few decades ago, the differences among cat breeds were relatively slight, and had to do mainly with fur length, color, or whether the cat was the more slender, “Oriental” type (hint – most were derived at least in part from Siamese), or the heavier-built, “cobby” type like British and American Shorthairs. A lot of the breed registries were open and most cats were more or less, well, cat-shaped. Now many of the breed registries are closed, and breed features, once subtle, are becoming very exaggerated as breeders compete to breed for “type” (sound familiar?).

   
   
   • on November 5, 2012 at 9:32 am kittenz

     Old-style Persians can still be found, too, and some breeders breed for the old type. They call them “doll-faced” or “sweet-faced” Persians. I love the old-type Persians but I find the appearance of show-type Persians, with their pushed-in noses, repulsive.

     
     
     • on November 5, 2012 at 9:56 am massugu

       I agree w/ all you said. Years ago we had an old-fashioned Sealpoint tom show up on our doorstep. He was sturdy, healthy as a horse and looked like a real cat. Since then we’ve had several Siamese crossbreeds–adopted from the pound–who have chronic dental problems. Turns out that bad teeth are a fixed characteristic of the Siamese lines nowadays.

       
       
       • on November 5, 2012 at 10:28 am massugu

         BTW: In answer to their question, I think the latest Persians look like Jabba the Hutt.

         
         
   • on November 5, 2012 at 10:44 am bearcoatpei

     I used to know someone who bred the show type Siamese/Orientals and they remind me of a long legged polecat. They seem to have a high mortality rate of kittens too.

     
     
     • on November 5, 2012 at 2:50 pm Ellamenno

       Funny you say that – the traditional type siamese was said to have an ermine-shaped head. I think mostly this was accentuated by the dark colourpoints giving them well-outlined contours, rather than actually having a remotely weasel-like face. But the standard says make your cat look like a weasel, so that’s what we’re going to do!

       Here’s a handsome moderate-type cat for some love.
       
       It may seem to have a long face, but it looks just like my sister’s pure-white cat, who is an enormous, short-legged and definitely not siamese. Though he is an intelligent, reckless, animated, and vocal cat… She’s since adopted an elderly traditional siamese little lady. She is rather the size of a weasel, that’s her only resemblance.

       
       
       • on November 5, 2012 at 3:40 pm bearcoatpei

         It’s funny how the written word can be taken literally to the point it’s nothing like the original intention. That cat’s a very nice looking boy. That’s my idea of what a Siamese should look like. Very much like the black moggy which was my one and only cat many years back. I swear she must have had some Siamese or Burmese blood as she was very talkative, elegant in body and sleek furred compared to the general non breed house cat. Always had to have the last word, feared nothing on four legs despite her diminutive size and was a constant source of amusement.

         
         
     • on November 5, 2012 at 4:24 pm kittenz

       Purebred Siamese have a high incidence of cardiomyopathy and cancer in many show-based lines, too.

       
       
3. on November 5, 2012 at 1:04 pm M.R.S.

   Truly amazing the changes wrought in a relatively short time. (in both cats and dogs, no doubt other animals as well). Also amazing that the breeders responsible may well have no idea of the damage that may accompany such departures from “normal”..

   
   
4. on November 5, 2012 at 4:51 pm Pris

   The show persians nowadays look like someone took an old style persian and smacked it in the face with a 2×4 repeatedly. I’d take the old style one anyday.

   
   
5. on November 5, 2012 at 7:05 pm Ogre Magi

   How come domesticated cats don’t have the size variability that domesticated dogs do?

   
   
   • on November 5, 2012 at 7:39 pm massugu

     Anybody who wants a guard cat can choose from a wide assortment of large cat species.

     
     
   • on November 6, 2012 at 1:20 am kittenz

     The original species from which dogs were domesticated (wolf) varies much more in size than the species from which cats were domesticated (small African and Eurasian wildcats). When animals are confined and selectively bred, mutations that arise can be concentrated by inbreeding. Further mutations occur, and over time, landraces develop. Dogs have been domesticated for a much, much longer time than cats – many thousands of years longer, so there has been much more time for mutations to arise.

     Another thing to consider is that a larger cat would probably not have been selected for, because large size would have reduced the cat’s effectiveness for rodent control. It’s only been within the last few hundred years that cats have been selectively bred and kept as pets. (Well, they were probably pets all along, too, but they were utility animals that were also pets, not solely pets.) Most cat breeds have been developed within the last 50 years.

     There are rumors of very large, up to puma-sized, feral cats in in rural regions of Australia. I’m very skeptical. I don’t doubt that there are some large feral cats, but I do seriously doubt that they are any larger than feral cats elsewhere. I’ll believe it when one is indisputably captured or killed, and indisputably documented. I’ve seen photos purported to be of giant feral cats, but the perspective in all cases was noticeably forced, and no bodies ever provided for study. One guy did provide a tail to a museum expert for study, but he had conveniently buried the body “somewhere on a riverbank”.

     The largest breeds of purely domestic cats are Maine Coon Cats and Ragdolls, with most Ragdolls larger than most Maine Coons. I have a Ragdoll cat who weighs 23 pounds and is larger than my JRT/Chihuahua-mix. But there are cat breeds being developed from hybridizing domestic cats with with servals and caracals that are much larger. Savannahs (serval hybrids) can weigh up to 40 pounds, and breeders are working on increasing the size. . I wonder about whether they will actually use a litter box like an ordinary cats. Pet servals and cheetahs are notorious for urine-marking everywhere, even if neutered. My Ragdoll is so big that I had to fashion a litter box for him from a horsefeed mixing tub; he’s just too long and tall to fit within even a jumbo catbox. The Savannahs get to be the size of, say, a miniature or small standard poodle, only heavier. They’d probably have to have a bathtub-sized box.

     I don’t know if I’d want a cat that gets bigger than that.

     
     
     • on November 7, 2012 at 8:01 pm Ellamenno

       Add to that, cats tend to be more destructive than dogs, between their sharp claws, climbing, hunting, marking, etc. The larger cats, being wild hybrids, have more of these undesirable behaviors and more predatory instinct and aggressive behaviors. Certainly, the right cat of any species can be a fantastic pet, but in general larger cats are a bad idea. The last thing we need, really.

       
       

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