What I am about to say here is not intended as an insult to the Dalmatian breed. Not at all, for some people, this breed is the perfect dog. However, it is not the dog for me.
My grandfather took in a Dalmatian that originally belonged to some relatives. He was not, as is often the stereotype, aggressive to either dogs or people. However, he was rather scatty.
Or at least, that’s how we interpreted his behavior. He was nothing like a working golden retriever. He wore my first dog out playing with her– something that virtual no other dog could do.
He was very difficult to focus.
He was high energy, but he wasn’t obsessive in the ways I was more accustomed to. I am much better off with a highly driven, high energy dog that focuses so strongly that it approaches obsession. (See my post on what I prefer in a dog.)
He had lots of energy. His ancestors were bred for two purposes– to walk along with a carriage for mile after mile and look good while doing it. As a result, his ancestors were selected for their endurance, a trait that they passed onto him in great abundance.
And although I really like hard-driving dogs with lots of endurance, this particular dog never seemed to tire.
Now, my skills as a trainer were not what they are today. I probably could have turned him into a wonderful dog. But my golden had by then so spoiled me that I was unaccustomed to dogs that didn’t naturally focus on my voice.
It’s perhaps my impression with this particular dog that led me to believe that Dalmatians were stupid dogs, but now I know that different dogs have different cognitive abilities. For us to go on and on about relative intelligence is rather unscientific.
However, the impression that I got from this dog is that Dalmatians simply aren’t a breed that I would choose. Now, in the hands of the right person, one who could appreciate their eccentricities, I’m sure they are the perfect match.
My guess is that the people who really can handle a Dalmatian are few and far between. That’s one reason why it always bothers me when a that particular film is either released or reproduced. Too many people see these films and then purchase the dogs without really understanding what they’re getting. Six months to a year later, the shelters wind up full of Dalmatians, cast off because their owners couldn’t understand them or cope with their very high energy.
Referring to your post on what your prefer in a dog:
It’s strange to me that you describe field-type Goldens as neurotic. Obsessive, maybe, or better yet prey-driven, but never neurotic. Perhaps this is because I’m a psychiatrist & use the word in its clinical sense. As a somewhat neurotic (and decidedly not calm) person, I truly appreciate Golden Retrievers because they do not have an ounce of neurosis. They are what they are, utter dogness. Nor are they passive-aggressive. They never withhold their love. I, too, appreciate the bouncy, exuberant Golden. I don’t think they are hyper — just more full of life than any breed I know.
Well, on to Dalmatians. Oddly enough, the previous Dog Test ranked Dalmatians as my 5th dog. (Goldens, Labs, FCR & ACDs?! ranked higher.) This provoked nostalgia in me, as I had a female Dalmatian puppy, my first own dog, at the age of 9. We had an elderly English Pointer bitch, my dad’s dog, whom I loved, at the time. This Dal puppy was the only submissive dog I have ever owned, but we worked past this problem. I figured out on my own that she was bilaterally deaf, and the vet confirmed this.
With my Rudd Weatherwas book,and hand signals, I trained her with obedience & tricks. She was quite intelligent, focused & highly trainable. She did a perfect little trot at heel, just like a show dog. I think I was a better trainer as a child than as an adult –perhaps it had something to do with focus or relating more to animals than people. Unfortunately, she had a poor immune system, and soon succumbed to mange & other illnesses despite medication so harsh it caused seizures. Her appearance was so horrible, with sores & scabs covering her whole body, that the neighbors tried to drown her twice, in the canal behind our house, and succeeded the second time.
After that, I got a black-and-white English Pointer without papers who lived to be 16. But I might consider a healthy Dalmatian from the Pointer Outcross project, just for old times sake. I have know some scatty ones, but I have known some ones who did very well in obedience. And I certainly wouldn’t care if they have patches!
I consider an obsessive dog quite neurotic. My best retriever would retrieve all day until she collapsed. She had to retrieve at least 100 times a day to be sastified. If I could find another dog like that, I’d be very happy.
I had someone tell me that she was trial quality, but we never pushed it.
A really drivey, neurotic, intelligent retriever. She was to retrievers what border collies are to herding dogs.
And if someone kept her who couldn’t appreciate eccentricities, they’d hate her.
She also would’ve been very useful as a sniffer dog, because a dog with her drives and proclivity is exactly what you’d want in a dog for that purpose.
I think modern Dalmatians are somewhat in that category of “ruined purebred dog.” I’ve heard of Dalmatians from decades ago that weren’t scatty things. I’ve known one that wasn’t scatty, but she was hyperprotective, on the level of German shepherd.
That’s why I wonder what those dogs from the Pointer Outcross Project are like. Of course, they only used one pointer.
I think of obsession as a compelling motivation (say, to fetch); neurosis as something that causes anxiety & distress, such as Separation Anxiety in dogs; and obsessive-compulsive behavior or dysfunctional obsessive behavior as licking excessively so as to cause lick granulomas (I’ve seen this is Goldens), excessive tail-chasing, and light-chasing to which certain breeds appear to be inclined.
That’s why I can’t really describe Goldens as neurotic, but maybe yours truly was. Some of my Goldens have been obsessive (1 with swimming), but not neurotic. Now obsessive-compulsive behavior in humans is part of the anxiety spectrum, which would classify it as a neurotic (non-psychotic) behavior. And it has been treated with higher doses of Prozac. I believe at one time dogs were treated with Prozac for lick granulomas.
I generally like dals. They do need a fair bit of exercise and a job. They are not like retrievers which will focus on just one thing but seem happiest when given a problem/s to solve. They work well along side their people, not always strictly for their people. I feel much of their reputation is due to going stir crazy and being expected to meet the needs of being a family pet while their own need to run and to exercise body and brain is often overlooked or under estimated.
The one my grandpa had was incredibly stupid. No amount of any technique of training (even those that worked nicely for scenthounds) worked with him. He was not deaf. He was inbred. If he’d been a child in a public school system, they would have put him on ritalin. He couldn’t solve any problems. He was the only dog in the whole group that never jumped a low gate that we always had to cross on walks. The goldens wouild jump it. The elkhounds would open it with their muzzles. And the Dalmatian would stand there very perplexed.
Part of his problem was that although he was well-socialized to people and dogs. He knew nothing about anything else.
Contrary to the stereotype– he feared horses. And my grandpa had a horse that loved dogs– absolutely loved them. The other dogs treated him as if he were a very big dog that could kick (so they weren’t rough with him). The Dalmatian treated him as if he were some great monster who tried to get him. (Of course, all the horse wanted to do was play with him).
He was partially a poorly socialized dog that never could adapt to rural living, and he was partially a heavily inbred thing. He was out of show stock. And he was the first true show-type dog I’d ever been around. He was a space cadet.
Now, what is said about Irish setters, I do disagree with. Maybe Irish setters were scatter-brained years ago, but they are coming back around.
I’ve been around three Dalmatians in my life for enough time to get a sense of them. One was a scatty dog like my grandpa’s dog. The other was a average smart dog but super protective. She was entirely too reactive to be around children.
I have a friend whose show bred dal is incredibly solid. She darn well knows I keep treats with me and always gives a little greeting then puts herself in front of me until I give her one. If I don’t have one I tell her and she’ll sigh and move out of the way. If I do give her a cookie, I get a little play bow and then a little silly happy dance.
She’s good with kids and around the dressage horses they keep.
The one who scared me was our former neighbors dog who was unilaterally deaf and hyper-reactive. He was back yard bred and a social misfit, almost mentally retarded. He was ultimately euthanized for escalating aggression.
Like many companion-only breeds which have been cursed with popularity, a lot of damage has been done. I would have a dal, but I would be highly selective of where he or she came from. As I’ve already done the bladder stone thing with cystinuria and have no desire to repeat it, I would probably either look to the back-crossed dogs (but only if they were genetically screened clear or carrier only for HUO) or a female ( they don’t block). And I would have to like the minds on mom and dad.
The only non-retrievers that I would consider are a Large Munsterlander or a border collie. I have to have one of those easily directed breeds, because I love to train. I would consider a sheltie, but a sheltie where I live would be coyote meat.
I’m much more in tune with dogs that have sort of prey drive and “high working obedience” intelligence. This intelligence is nothing more than enhanced communication abilities with people.
Dalmatians did have a purpose. It’s just that it’s perhaps the most bizarre purpose I’ve ever heard of– next to the job for the turnspit. Running with a carriage and looking good.
These dog have so much energy that I wonder why no one has thought of using them as an outcross to Alaskan husky sled dogs that are used for racing.
Well, that’s what they do with GSPs. But GSPs have plenty of points other than energy in their favor.
Actually, Dals did more than just “running next to a carriage and looking good.” They were also guard dogs and were used to protect carriages and the contents thereof. Part of the stereotype of an aggressive Dalmatian is due to owners getting a guardy breed, not realizing that they got a guardy breed, and not doing the necessary socialization and training.
I’ve never met a “scatty” Dalmatian, however, I have met many intelligent Dals who excelled at problem-solving. Most Dals are intelligent (of course, there are exceptions to every rule) but they do require training and socialization, and they’re not suitable for someone who will let their dog walk all over them. A well-socialized Dal from a good breeder should have a solid, stable temperament, but it’s not uncommon for a Dal to be willing to take charge if their owner lets them.
I know several Dalmatian service dogs, including my own dog, Grady. Interestingly enough, Dals were among the first breeds trained as guide dogs.
I also know of Dals that were used in the field as hunting dogs (some will point, but they’re more likely to flush birds). Of course, they’re not much for water retrieving, being single-coated! :)
BTW, do you know who your grandfather’s Dal came from?
The dog came from the Raleigh, NC, area.
I’ve met lots of scatty pet quality Dals. The one I met that was normal in her trainability was very aggressive. I’ve never seen one that could problem solve anything. I’ve seen them walk into low lying shrubs. The ones I’ve been around are like what people say Irish setters are like– can’t focus on anything, go from one thing to the next. I’m sure there are some lines that aren’t like that.
I actually think a Dalmatian is pointer cross, and that’s how the breed got started. I seriously doubt that they come from Croatia, India, or Egypt. The accounts in Croatian poetry and history that point to this breed are actually pointing to white Istrian smooth-haired hounds, not coach dogs.
I usually don’t call dogs “stupid.” It’s unscientific. In fact, I think Afghan hounds are brilliant dogs, but I have yet to see a Dalmatian (at least with the lines I’ve seen) do anything amazing, except run around or run into things or bite someone.
Interestingly, I’ve yet to come across a true deaf Dalmatian or one with patches.
BTW, the dogs from the backcross project have typical Dal temperament. One of my Dals has backcross grandpuppies, and from what I’ve been told there’s no difference other than the backcross Dals being LUA.
Yet, you’re not using the Kennel Club definition– blood purity is all that matters.
We even have naturally tailless boxers that come from corgi crosses.
And they can only be registered in the UK. Germany refuses to recognize them and the FCI is follows the native country’s recognition.
Keep in mind that the AKC did initially register two backcross dogs. It was the DCA, not the AKC, that decided to take away the ability for those dogs’ offspring to be registered. Backcross dogs are registered by the UKC, and at the last vote, 40-something percent of DCA members supported the backcross dogs being recognized by the AKC.
There’s been quite a bit of uproar over the whole backcross matter, and it’s led to several DCA members quitting and joining Dalmatians of North America, the UKC club. Among many Dalmatian fanciers, at least, “blood purity” does not take precedence over health.
I’d also like to add that most sensible people think that the KC is a bit off their rocker when it comes to things like outcrosses. ;)
Anyway, I’m sorry you’ve had bad luck in meeting intelligent Dals. Both of mine are quite clever and good problem-solvers, as are their relatives. Both do come from lines with successful obedience dogs, and both of their breeders value intelligence and temperament (neither breeder would breed a stupid dog, no matter how pretty that dog was).
My younger Dal figured out how to open our back door, which has a round handle, after living here for less than a month – when I called his breeder to tell her, I found out that he also knew how to open sliding doors and would let her dogs in regularly. He also knows that he can prompt a training session by bringing me his ball or dumbbell.
My older Dal is my service dog and regularly does things like finding the car I rode in (it varies, as I don’t drive myself), guiding me through places – including places as busy as the Texas State Fair, and performing retrieves of items as small as a dime. He is, of course, non-aggressive although I feel sure he would protect me if the situation warranted it.
Neither walks into shrubs. ;) Hopefully you’ll eventually get to see Dals like Elaine Hamill’s dogs – she’s shown at least two Dals to an OTCH, and I think her current dog is a MACH.
I felt I had to leave a comment on here.
I’m sorry but I have to disagree with those of you saying Dal’s are scatty. To those familiar with the breed, yes they need controlling, they have plenty of energy and to own one you have to have a sense of humour, but to say the breed is scatty is unfair. I have seen and met plenty of completely clueless owners who treat dogs like a replacement child, or who simply don’t discipline (I don’t mean hitting!) the dog by creating boundaries. It isn’t the dog’s fault they end up with someone who shouldn’t look after a goldfish let alone a dog. My current Dal came to me after living with a family who couldn’t control him. They claimed he was destructive and when I went to pick him up he ran down the stairs and jumped over the back of the sofa before bouncing off all four walls to greet me. The dog they claimed couldn’t be trained and listened to no-one, now goes outside to clean and wipe his mouth on the lawn after his meal, he knows over 30 voice commands, is whistle trained and knows hand commands. He has even learnt by himself to howl and find my elderly grandmother to tell her the phone is ringing.
This dog is as gentle and loving as they come, he is great with children, he frequently stood and allowed three young boys to pat him and scrambled around him. He is amazing with my grandmother, he never pushes in front of her to get out of the door, he stands and waits and he never gets under her feet unlike the terrier we used to have. Everyone in the village adores our dog and knows him by name. I walk with him off the lead all the time, partly I guess because I live in the middle of nowhere, but also because I know I can trust him. He walks to heel, he knows left from right, I can point to the side of the road and he walks over to that side, stands and waits. What more do you want from a dog? Some dogs are aloof, some don’t always want to be fussed or have a cuddle, Dal’s are always ready and willing, they always want to be close to you.
But you’re right, yes this breed isn’t for you unless you love exercise, you can offer long walks and runs, varied activities, be dominant, and most importantly, spend time with the animal. Dal’s are incredibly social dogs, they want to be next to you all the time. Don’t get one of these unless you either have the time to spend with it, or you have the space and money to get two.
By the way, as a side note, the second I got our Dal, I changed his food to a complex, slow energy release gun dog food. With this staple, I add chicken or fish, and veggies. I think this calmed him down initially too, although mostly it was probably training and burning off some of the energy going for runs every day.
Final note, I’ve had plenty of experience with Golden Retrievers, Spaniels, Labs and Terriers, and they all do have a special place in my heart and yes, retrievers are very willing, but then where’s the fun in always getting what you want first time?
The dog I knew was incredibly scatty, even with hard exercise.
You can disagree with what I think.
You cannot disagree with my experiences.
I feel sorry that you have had poor experiences with the breed I really do, perhaps the dog you say you knew was just not a great example of how the breed can be from a genetic viewpoint. I feel I should say that in talking about people who shouldn’t perhaps own a dog I was referring more to some owners who I have met and seem to blame the animal when they leave a demanding breed cooped up all day alone and think a 30 minute walk will then cut it. What I am trying to say is that please don’t brand a breed in such a negative way until you have seen both the good and bad examples. You admit you have never met a smart Dal, but I am saying I own a smart Dal. How many Dals have you actually met in your lifetime? How many owners have you really taken the time out to speak to? Do you know any breeders or rescue organisations? The depth and breadth of everyone’s experiences differs widely, I expect you have far greater experience of the Golden Retriever than I do, I only ask you to question the justification and evidence you have for the statements you have made.
I’ve met goldens that are really scatty, too, but that’s because they are often bred by numbskulls.
This particular dog was sired by a show champion.
I knew two other Dalmatians. One was just like him (a bitch), and the other was tractable and biddable but very protective.
Again, I said this breed wasn’t for me.
Their typical behavior is not what I find endearing.
I like dogs with energy, but I like that energy focused with a predatory motor pattern. That’s why border collies, Jack Russells, and working retrievers and I get along quite well.
My cousin has a Dal, never did like it. Wasn’t outwardly aggressive or defensive toward others either. Too much undirected energy, and no it’s not the fault of the owner since he is used to having field-bred labs.
The problem-solving cognitive was there, but the ability to distinguish tastes wasn’t. My family always considered her stupid because the dog would jump on the BBQ and lick it, then yelps in pain, then do it again.