All in one clip!
Albert’s vocalizations tell me that the yodel-moan that retrievers are known for comes from these dogs. I don’t know whether the other dog is a St. John’s water dog or a Labrador.
That’s the only footage of this breed I can find anywhere.
Well, no to be a pain. But, if this dog named “Albert” was a St. John’s and was no longer pulling nets from the water…… is it really a St. John’s. Genetics may say yes, but behavior might say something else? Obviously much of the desired behavior needs to be taught. Or the dog just becomes a remnant of what it could be. Sort of like the many dogs called retrievers nowadays. They don’t retrieve, but we still call them a retriever.
I know from your writing that you are passionate about the history of Goldens and all the breeds involved. So, if someone did pick up the torch to revive the Old St. John’s and did train them to swim out and retrieve fishing nets. what other qualifiers would need to be met to say… okay, once and for all…. this is a St. John’s water dog, or every bit of what the originals were.
Albert seemed like an old but loyal dog in the video. Fit the amusing nature of his owner very well.
The only thing about Albert is that his ancestors were retrieving from the sea. He came from a place called Grand Bruit.
Albert was purchased after Mowat and his wife met a St. John’s water dog on the French island of St. Pierre, which is south of Newfoundland. I need to do a post on this dog, but she was a village dog that had no particular owner.
St. Pierre and Miquelon are the islands that France was allowed to keep after losing their control of New France in 1763. Those islands are the only parts of French North America that still remain in the hands of France. (They still own some islands in the Caribbean and French Guiana).
So its very possible that the last of the ST. Johns were not doing what they were intended for and they just passed away quietly. The video does show Albert targeting and then going under the surf to find the toy that Mowat threw in. Perhaps there was some instinct still there? In any case…. I would like to see the St. John’s recreated. and the Tweeds.
Albert’s parents, I think, were working ship dogs.
To bring them back, I have a formula– Labradoodles, Portuguese water dogs, and pure Labs– only blacks and chocolates. Yellow and red never existed in the New World populations.
But if we brought them back, they wouldn’t be the same dog.
No Newfoundlands?
The big modern Newfoundland?
Probably not. They are really slow in the water, and their huge size is really a result of mass production for the pet market in Europe. They were probably derived from a strain of St. John’s water dogs that originally were mostly white and were larger. I don’t know how much larger. This type was the first large working breed ever bred on mass scale for the pet market.
Even the original big ones could be used as retrievers. I’ve seen paintings of the big dogs retrieving woodcock and pheasant, but I don’t think they really would play a role in bringing back the water dog. They are even more removed from the strain than the retrievers are.
Well the St. John’s look like a really beefy dog. Wide bodies, which is why I suggested Newf’s. So if that is out of the mixe then why not another beefy breed like a German Shepherd or Rotty. I once saw a Rotty Mix that looked more like a Thick boned Lab.
Anyone one know if there is a tissue sample available (blood, hair, bone) of a St. John’s water dog? I would be happy to make a genomic library for later use.
That’s a great idea, but I don’t know any preserved specimens or any burials that could have preserved the DNA.