This is a Pudelpointer.
It was originally a cross between a pointer (as in one developed in Britain) and the standard poodle. The first cross happened between a pointer named Tell and standard poodle bitch named Molly in 1881.
The pointer belonged to Kaiser Friedrich III, and the water poodle belonged to the German hunting dog expert Sigismund Freiherr vom Zedlitz und Neukirch (better known as “Hegewald.”) Hegewald was be a major player the concept of the versatile hunting dog in Germany. It was he who developed the versatile hunting dog utility test to assist in choosing breeding stock.
The Pudelpointer was his creation. This breed is not well-known. However, as I said before, this is one of the breeds behind the modern Drahthaar, and that breed is fairly well-known in its country of origin.
Hegewald’s goal was to create a versatile working dog that could retrieve from the water, point birds, and track game. The German goal of gun dog breeding was not to produce specialized animals, as had happened in the British gun dog world.
But although this dog is wire-haired, it is not a German wire-haired pointer.
It is also not a Drahthaar.
It is one of the dogs that is the ancestor of both.
BTW, I don’t think we can call this breed the first “doodle.”
Are there more than a handful of really great working weimeraners in the US? All the ones i have seen in the field were terrible, and I dont hear about an active trial community like those that exist for GSPs and Vislas.
Weims are really interesting. They were actually a big game hound, very similar to the Plott hound and the Hanoverian schweisshund, that was later bred to be an HPR. I don’t know of many working Weimaraners here. I suspect that some of the lines that carry the long-hair gene are actually not far removed from German stock, so they might be useful.
As many German Americans as there are in this country, you’d think we would’ve been much more interested in these breeds than we are. Part of it is that it takes an arm and leg to get one of these dogs. The wait-lists are long, and they are very picky about who gets one. They are very worried that their dogs will go south if they wind up in the hands of the fancy and the mass producers. And they are right to be worried.
BTW, even the JRTCA has a conformation standard.
The only clubs I know of that don’t have one are the various performance registries for working border collies and racing sled dogs. I think the big foxhound registry (that also registers crosses) has no standard either, but don’t quote me on it.
I can understand conformation if conformation is based on reality. If it is somewhat like an adaptation in the Darwinian sense, then I’m fine with it.
After reading the Deutsch Drahthaar stuff, I’m very interested in this breed or at least adapting their strict standards to retrievers.
You can’t tell me that these American cockers are perfectly designed to flush birds out of the undergrowth.
BTW, if you’d like to see some controversy, I’m getting ready to do a post on tail docking either this evening or tomorrow.
You are a great reseach analyst. When i am CEO of Peabody Coal, I will offer you a full-time position writing a private web-log just for me. You can choose your own title.
I find all sides of the tail-docking debate to be equal dodes of bullshit. I have never seen the tip of a working dog’s tail bleed chronically in the field. Why can’t we just have the guts to say “Yes, it’s cosmetic, but we do it b/c it doesn’t bother the dogs, it’s tradition, and they are our property.”
For those that are against it: Work like hell to get ear-piercing of young girls banned, sort out circumcision, then focus your attention to dog’s tails.
I agree with you on the last sentence.
But there is some evidence that HPR’s damage the tips of their tails when they are left undocked. When Sweden banned it, their short-hairs had an epidemic of tail injuries.
And with those breeds, you aren’t cutting all the tail off. Just the lower third, which can get damaged easily.
I’m not anti-docking or dewclaw removal.
Cropping is a dying art. It won’t disappear because of legislation. It will die out because the vets who know how to do it and the vets who are willing to do it will simply die of old age.
Here’s the story of my grandpa’s Feist: http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/jiggs-the-feist/
This dog was born during the Great Depression and lived to see the end of the Korean War.
So very interesting – especially as an example of a purpose-bred cross. You might like this site for another history of pudelpointers – http://www.pudelpointer.ca/history.html
Of course, I must comment that, among other things, a standard poodle was and remains an extremely versatile dog (see, e.g., http://www.poodlehistory.org/), so it’s completely understandable that it was crossed with the English Pointer to create an all-around HPR that is also an easy keeper. One of the greatest strengths of the breed is that in spite of the ridiculous hair in the show ring it remains a versatile, cooperative, easily trained and easy-to-keep dog (except for the inbreeding depression and disease, etc). If the Poodle Club of America ever gets its stuff together and acknowledges the breed needs new genetic material I would hope some brave soul out there considers a pudelpointer/standard poodle cross.
That’s very interesting that Hegewald got that idea from accidental matings.
BTW, curly-coated retrievers are not derived from a pointer and poodle cross.
I don’t know if you’ve read the Jim Kjelgaard books. They are meant for adolescent boys, but I read my fair share of them growing up.
These dogs remind me of Big Red, the Irish setter that hunted everything from grouse to black bears!
This is fortuitous
http://www.pudelpointer-westfalen.de/german/index.html?testcookie=1&dnp=kebta
Westfalen (Westphalia) is where my people are from (before they moved to Pomerania).
Pudelpointer blood trailing a red deer stag:
Thats a Drahthaar, not a Pudelpointer in the Photo.
I have that photo is Drahthaar Book that I own.
Drahthaar have pudelpointer ancestors.
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