This dog is a banhar, as it was quickly revealed in the query post.
Banhars are very similar to Tibetan mastiffs– and are probably quite closely related.
They both represent a kind of livestock guardian landrace.
The Mongolians prefer their dogs to have black and tan coloration, which they call “four-eyed dogs.” The tan mark above the eyes looks like animals have another pair of eyes.
It is generally a more lightly built dog than the Tibetan mastiff, and I certainly wouldn’t call them the same breed. In the nineteenth century, the Tibetan mastiff was deemed the ancestor of all molosser dogs (something I have yet to see fully proven in any genetic study) and tons of foppish Victorian cynologists went to Asia in search of them.
That’s where the Western KC version of the Tibetan mastiff comes from.
It’s now quite a fad pet and status symbol in China.
The banhar or bankhar dog has never attained that status.
It is still used as a guard dog in Mongolia.
The animals have legendary status– they are believed to be fierce adversaries for any wolf. This is something I’ve heard repeated for several dogs of this type, such as the Kangal of Turkey and the Caucasian Ovtcharka.
Everyone likes to think that his big dog can really open up a can on a wolf.
And I wouldn’t doubt that wolf would think twice about fighting such a big dog.
Just remember that the biggest wolves can kill a moose.
And I’m sure they can kill a very big dog, even one that is this big and aggressive.
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Yeah Mongolian Banhar(Банхар) does look a lot like Tibetan Mastiff.
But the characteristics of the two dogs are different, Mongolian Banhar are more humble, gentle and very intelligent.
Growing up in Mongolia I’ve heard many stories of Banhar being a very brave dog and all, but it’s not until I’ve actually seen a video footage that was given by my friend and i had started to believe they’re truly good dogs.
It was a raw footage where my friends uncle caught what was two wolf snatching sheep from the flock on tape.
Then banhar came in ended things violently, it wasn’t like it were trying to play around with the wolves or it wasn’t a epic long fight.
The banhar were going for the kill in every each attack, neck specially.
Although 2 more banhar came along later it was that first one actually killed the 2 wolf. It wasn’t a pretty sight really but it was a one smart dog, you could just tell. Against wolf pack one banhar is obviously nothing. But against one or two banhar is a challenge for them. In Mongolia I don’t think you would see wolf pack like the one in Alaska, you get a lot of individual roaming wolf or sometimes in their 2.
Also on of their best ways of banhar dogs protecting is constantly barking at night till morning keeping their owner informed things are safe. Mongolian nomadic people are used to it. So they’re more active at night where things get ugly hehe. In the day time banhar follows their owner all day wherever he goes and pretty much sleeps beside him while the owner handles his things.
I even heard of cases where banhar getting with wild dogs and mixing together which is pretty sick.
In re: dog killing, what people forget is that the wolves also don’t work alone. One will often lure a dog into chasing them, and then another comes up from behind. Still, where there’s amply prey the presence of one of these big, loud dogs in often enough to make the predators cast their eyes on sources of food other than the flock or herd being guarded.
(And actually I’ve seen the reverse strategy employed instinctively by dogs here on coyotes. People have deliberately bred what seems like a very counterintuitive cross: German shepherd dog to greyhound. These dogs are used to keep coyotes out of rancher’s yards/home fields. The dogs work collectively, where the one (apparently by itself) will “start” a conflict with one or two coyotes (that thinks the small dog might be easy to defeat), and then the other dogs come from ambush and get the coyote(s). The greyhound gives the dogs the speed to outrun and outflank the coyotes, while the large mass from the GSD gives them the size to win against even a big coyote one on one. I didn’t really credit that the dogs did this without any training, but I’ve heard enough about it from otherwise practical and unsentimental ranchers that I believe it. Certainly they keep breeding and keeping this type of dog, so it must work for them.)
They do tend to keep more than one banhar about for just that purpose.
I don’t think the Mongolian wolf is as big the one in Western Canada or Alaska.
But these northern clade wolves have bigger heads, teeth, and jaws than any dog.
I would say that the “banhar” *is* the same landrace breed as the so-called Tibetan Mastiff. Tibetan nomads call them dokhyis. A rose by any other name…
Dogs that look very much the same – and, more importantly, which serve the same functions – exist throughout the Himalayan region. No surprise that their range extends up into Mongolia.
That Tibetan Mastiff was an obsession of the nineteenth century fancy.
They did everything to produce them. They traveled all over Asia in search of them.
When I think of Tibetan mastiff, I think of that dog, not the ones that are actually in Asia.
The fact that these dogs live in Mongolia (up to the Russia border) means they will be a bit different from the Himalayan dogs, just because of natural selection.
I think we should be a little more cautious in judging traditions which are thousands of years old from a purely theoric positivist point of view based on reading books and watching tv documentaries. I don’t think Mediterranean, Turkish, Iranian, Central Asian shepherds don’t really know what they do. If they say that these dogs help them in fighting off wolves, I suggest we should believe them. From my experience in Italy, one of the few European countries where wolves still exist in significant numbers, the use of Mastino Abruzzese in the central Appenines has always been essential in local economies, and I would bet that mountain shepherds are not willing to waste their time in breeding, raising, feeding and training useless animals – which are very valued among them and can cost a lot of money. A single kangal, a single dokhyi or a single mastino abruzzese can indeed fight against a single wolf, and no single wolf would really decide to risk serious injuries if not somehow forced to do that. They would probably not be able, alone (that’s why generally shepherds use two or three dogs), to defend a flock against two or more wolves, but they play an important role in preventing attacks and no wolf, even the bigger northern subspecies, would be happy in having to deal with such aggressive animals – mooses are big and strong and put up a fierce fight, but they are herbivores, and this makes a lot of difference.
I think the issue is that the wolves of the Western United States are just much more robust than those of most of Eurasia.
I think the dogs can handle those wolves, but when they are up against a wolf that weighs 100-125 pounds, that’s an issue.
The Mongolian bankhar dog and the Tibetan mastiff are one and the same breed. They’re basically just a subtype of the Tibetan mastiff found in Mongolia.
A lot of primitive dog breeds possess a very rich gene pool, and the dogs adapt well to varying environment, so they end up divided into subtypes and sometimes to untrained people they appear to be different breeds when in fact they are not.
On top of that you can blame the politics when people in those countries are trying to claim that they have a unique breed etc.
Just look at how some people are claiming everywhere that Anatolian shepherds and Kangals are 2 different breeds when in fact they are not. Or that Alabai and the Kuchi dog are not simply a sub-variant of the Central Asian Ovcharka/Shepherd. It’s all about politics in those countries
125 pounds is 56 Kg ….i don`t think there would be a problem for a 70 to 80 kg sheperd dog (bankhar, caucasian, kangal, mastino, romanian CRB, romanian Mioritic dogs) .
The head on an Western or Northern North American wolf is much larger than that of any dog, including European mastiffs and mountain dogs.
Plus, they kill moose and bison, which are more formidable than any dog.
And they do hunt in packs.
Yes, hunting in pack its a real problem , but still regarding the size you are wrong according to this :
– “Northern wolves”: large-sized, large-brained wolves with strong carnassials which inhabit North America, Europe and northern Asia
– “Southern wolves”: native to North Africa, the Arabian Peninsula and South Asia. They are characterised by their smaller size, skull and teeth, and a short and thin coat without appreciable underwool.
-Gray wolves are the largest extant members of the Canidae, excepting certain large breeds of domestic dog
– Wolf weight varies geographically; on average, European wolves may weigh 38.5 kilograms (85 lb), North American wolves 36 kilograms (79 lb), Indian and Arabian wolves 25 kilograms (55 lb)[48] and North African wolves 13 kilograms (29 lb).
taken from wikipedia in this link :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf
So basically the European wolfs are a bit larger with 2 kg in average, than the North American wolf.
Indeed wolfs hunting in packs are dangerous, but 20 caucazians of 65-70 kg EACH…..are not to be underestimated.
I’m sorry, but you’re not understanding what I’m saying.
North American wolves aren’t just northern clade wolves, they are big game specialists.
If a pack of wolves can kill a bison, they can destroy a dog or even another wolf of the same subspecies.
Here’s a comparison of a Western North American wolf’s skull compared to a Neapolitan mastiff, which is larger than the dogs you’re talking about:
http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2011/02/26/neapolitan-mastiff-skull-compared-with-that-of-a-wolf/
This woman has several livestock guardian dogs in Wyoming: http://coffeecanine.blogspot.com/2012/03/cat-urbigkit-rena.html
Some of them are of what we call Central Asian Ovtcharkas, and the wolves have killed them.
You fundamentally don’t get that a North American wolf is much more powerful wolf than the ones in the Old World.
Ok….if I understand corectly you wanna say that the skull of an alaskan/canadian wolf is larger in proportion to body size compared to a dog skull . Yes it is bigger, sort of (longer at woulf but larger at dogs-see your picture – if it is longer doesnt mean it is more powerfull !!)
http://www.alaska.net/~wolfsong/wolf_id.html
But still, on what information (official links) you rely on when saying that a North American wolf is much more powerfull then a dog (refering here to a few breeds from Group 2 Section 2 from FCI site) or Old World wolf ?
Trust me, i dont know what chance has a North American wolf near a Caucasian Shepherd
The chance that a single North American wolf , not a pack, would survive from a fight with a single Caucasian is considerably low.
The answer is that a wolf could crush its skull. Their jaws exert a pressure of 1,500 psi, which no dog can match.
A North American wolf would crush that dog with its jaws. The jaws on one of these wolves are unlike that of any dog.
These Ovtcharkas can fight Old World subspecies. But as soon as they get into it with a big Western North American wolf, they are doomed.
You might be surprised to learn that North American ranchers in wolf country do use these dogs. They are better at guarding stock from wolf than Maremmas or Great Pyrs.
But the wolves do kill several of them every year.
And I’ve never heard of an Ovtcharka killing a western North American wolf.
These are the facts.
European and Russian wolves don’t often hunt moose or bison. Bison are of course quite restricted in their Russian range.
Just do a youtube search of wolves hunting bison, and you’ll see that we have very powerful wolves that do this sort of thing.
A hundred years ago, borzoi were imported to the United States to hunt wolves. They failed miserably. We had to use deerhounds and Irish wolfhounds and their crosses to hunt them.
Our wolves are just that much more powerful than those in Eurasia.
what is Old world wolf ?
Wolf with a head larger than any dog. With jaw muscles that are more powerful than any dog. No dog has teeth like these wolves either.
That can kill a moose on its own. It doesn’t happen much, but there are cases of single wolves killing a moose on their own.
There are people who have tried these Old World wolf killing livestock guardian dogs. They work better than Great Pyrenees, but they still are occasionally killed by wolves.
And I know of no cases in which they have killed Western North American wolves.
European wolves look like slightly robust German shepherds. They are more powerful than German shepherds.
But I’m telling you they are nothing compared to the big game hunting specialist wolves we have in Western North America.
Our wolves kill black bears and occasionally even grizzlies on occasion.
It would also be very unusual for a wolf to come in on a flock of sheep on its own.
If you had a large pack of these dogs, they might be a deterrent. One ovtcharka on its own will be wolf meat.
Ok
An idea of what kind of wolf exists in the western parts of North America: http://www.findmeahunt.com/blog/tag/idaho-wolf-hunting/
There is small subspecies in the Southwest, but it’s not very common.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/%D0%90%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B1/412242902208814?fref=ts just see it