• Home
  • About
  • Contact
  • Patreon
  • Premium Membership
  • Services

Natural History

by Scottie Westfall

Feeds:
« New species of crayfish discovered in West Virginia
Scent detection dogs used in Amur tiger conservation »

Cur bays gray fox in a cage trap

September 12, 2011 by SWestfall3

Source.

This is a mutual bark off! (Yes.  The fox is barking back– very raspily!)

Remember that gray foxes and their close cousins, the island foxes, aren’t really foxes. They are actually the most primitive of all wild dog species.  The lineage to which these creatures belong is estimated to be around 10 million years old, the oldest of all extant canids.

The Kemmer cur in this video is of a strain of the greater mountain cur type. There are several strains of mountain cur that are well onto their way to breed formation. They still have an open registry system, which registered all dogs that can be proven to have 75 percent Kemmer ancestry with white papers. However, they still allow dogs with less than 75 percent Kemmer ancestry to be registered with green papers. And the green paper dogs can breed to the white paper dogs.

Curs are often called hounds, but it’s slightly in error. They may have hound ancestry, but they are actually meant to be multipurpose hunting dogs in ways that beagles, foxhounds, and coonhounds typically aren’t. And many of these curs can be used to herd livestock and hunt and retrieve birds. Their ancestry includes whatever dogs could live on the frontier, including those of the Native Americans, those of British and Irish working farm dog and hound stock, and those of German working farm dog and hound stock. (I’ve noted how much some of these dog look like rustic pinscher-types, like the rare Austrian pinscher.)

These two animals are truly made in the USA. At one time, most Americans knew what gray foxes were, and they hunted them with dogs very similar to this Kemmer cur.

But now they both might as well be from Siberia.

Curs are often thought of as mongrels, which is the result of a terrible bastardization of the English language. Curs were the dogs of small farmers in the British Isles. They weren’t standardized or “improved” within the nineteenth century dog fancy system, so they were considered dogs of “low breeding.” Because they weren’t within this system, they might as well have been totally randomly-bred mongrels. But they weren’t.  Some strains of these dogs have been established and maintained for many generations, and many breeders were very careful in selectively breeding their dogs.

The most famous cur was the dog in Fred Gipson’s novel Old Yeller. That particular dog was probably more of a black mouth cur, which is the cur-type that was common around the Gulf Coast states and Texas. The dog in the film version of Gipson’s novel was a Labrador cross named Spike.

No one really seems to know much about either canids in this video. Four of the six small canids native to North America are gray. Two of these, the swift and the kit fox, are actually foxes– that are very closely related to the arctic fox.  The gray and island foxes aren’t in that lineage at all, and where gray foxes and kit and swift foxes live near each other, it is very common for people to misidentify them.

So curs aren’t mongrels, and gray foxes aren’t foxes.

What a confusing language we have!

 

 

 

 

Posted in wild dogs, working dogs | Tagged cur, gray fox, grey fox, Kemmer cur, Kemmer Stock Mountain cur, mountain cur | 5 Comments

5 Responses

  1. on September 12, 2011 at 10:14 pm Jen Robinson

    A bit off topic, but saw an interesting use of black mouth cur X’s the other day.
    See
    http://hogwrangler.com/index.htm

    This guy is doing catch and release boar hunting with a crew of well trained dogs, apparently to get an adrenalin high. His raises his pups to be pig savvy by throwing a wild piglet into the litter.

    http://www.youtube.c…feature=related

    Amazing litter of pups. I’ve never seen such a mix-up of colors and markings on what appears to be a single litter of pups.


  2. on September 12, 2011 at 10:19 pm cyborgsuzy

    My first read of your title came to my brain as “Cute Gay Fox in Cage Trap”.

    I think I need more sleep.


  3. on September 14, 2011 at 3:17 pm Peggy Richter

    curious where you have the gray fox as more closely related to dogs than swift foxes. The cladogram I’ve seen is pretty much like this one here:

    Click to access canis_15.pdf


    which indicates 12 MYA seperation dog and “gray fox” and that the swift is actually closer to the dog than the gray is. Are you using a different one?

    Peggy Richter


    • on September 14, 2011 at 3:29 pm retrieverman

      The answer is nowhere. Nowhere in that post do I say this.

      I never said that gray foxes were related to ANY extant canids, save the Island foxes, which are gray foxes on the Channel Islands.

      I’m not half daft. I’ve written about gray foxes being a unique and ancient lineage DOZENS of times on this blog.


  4. on September 15, 2011 at 6:56 pm Peggy Richter

    my bad. I misread your second sentence. I didn’t catch that “wild dog” was being used as “canid”. I meant no offense.
    Peggy



Comments are closed.

  • Like on Facebook

    The Retriever, Dog, and Wildlife Blog

    Promote Your Page Too
  • Blog Stats

    • 9,762,670 hits
  • Retrieverman’s Twitter

    • one person unfollowed me // automatically checked by fllwrs.com 3 weeks ago
    • @TetZoo Cougars/Puma/Mountain Lions have kittens, as do cheetahs because they are not Pantherines. 3 weeks ago
    • @SergioStalino Message me. I got lots of tips on catching and cooking. 3 weeks ago
    • @SergioStalino What kind of reel? 3 weeks ago
    • one person followed me // automatically checked by fllwrs.com 1 month ago
  • Google rank

    Check Google Page Rank
  • Archives

    • September 2020
    • August 2020
    • July 2020
    • June 2020
    • May 2020
    • April 2020
    • February 2020
    • January 2020
    • December 2019
    • November 2019
    • October 2019
    • September 2019
    • August 2019
    • July 2019
    • June 2019
    • May 2019
    • April 2019
    • March 2019
    • February 2019
    • January 2019
    • December 2018
    • November 2018
    • October 2018
    • September 2018
    • August 2018
    • July 2018
    • June 2018
    • May 2018
    • April 2018
    • March 2018
    • February 2018
    • January 2018
    • December 2017
    • November 2017
    • October 2017
    • September 2017
    • August 2017
    • July 2017
    • June 2017
    • May 2017
    • April 2017
    • March 2017
    • February 2017
    • January 2017
    • December 2016
    • November 2016
    • October 2016
    • September 2016
    • August 2016
    • July 2016
    • June 2016
    • May 2016
    • April 2016
    • March 2016
    • February 2016
    • January 2016
    • December 2015
    • November 2015
    • October 2015
    • September 2015
    • August 2015
    • July 2015
    • June 2015
    • May 2015
    • April 2015
    • March 2015
    • February 2015
    • January 2015
    • December 2014
    • November 2014
    • October 2014
    • September 2014
    • August 2014
    • July 2014
    • June 2014
    • May 2014
    • April 2014
    • March 2014
    • February 2014
    • January 2014
    • December 2013
    • November 2013
    • October 2013
    • September 2013
    • August 2013
    • July 2013
    • June 2013
    • May 2013
    • April 2013
    • March 2013
    • February 2013
    • January 2013
    • December 2012
    • November 2012
    • October 2012
    • September 2012
    • August 2012
    • July 2012
    • June 2012
    • May 2012
    • April 2012
    • March 2012
    • February 2012
    • January 2012
    • December 2011
    • November 2011
    • October 2011
    • September 2011
    • August 2011
    • July 2011
    • June 2011
    • May 2011
    • April 2011
    • March 2011
    • February 2011
    • January 2011
    • December 2010
    • November 2010
    • October 2010
    • September 2010
    • August 2010
    • July 2010
    • June 2010
    • May 2010
    • April 2010
    • March 2010
    • February 2010
    • January 2010
    • December 2009
    • November 2009
    • October 2009
    • September 2009
    • August 2009
    • July 2009
    • June 2009
    • May 2009
    • April 2009
    • March 2009
    • February 2009
    • January 2009
    • December 2008
    • November 2008
    • October 2008
    • September 2008
    • August 2008
    • July 2008
  • Recent Comments

    The Evolving Natural… on So does the maned wolf break t…
    SWestfall3 on So does the maned wolf break t…
    Ole Possum on So does the maned wolf break t…
    kuymal on The Thylacine was more a marsu…
    Kerry Rogers on The Thylacine was more a marsu…
  • Meta

    • WordPress.com
  • Pages

    • About
    • Contact
    • Patreon
    • Premium Membership
    • Services
  • Subscribe to Retrieverman's Weblog by Email
  • Revolver map

    Map

  • Top Posts

    • The wolves of West Virginia
  • SiteCounter


  • Donate to this blog

  • Top 50 Northwest Dog Blogs

    top 50 dog blogs

Blog at WordPress.com.

WPThemes.


%d bloggers like this: