So says the Team Jenneh “We Was Robbed” Facebook Group.
I’m gonna have to call BULLSHIT on that one! Yeah, bulldog bullshit. It’s not what happens when you cross one with a shih-tzu.
It was well known 10o years ago that bulldogs were radically different from what they once were. This painting by Cresswell H. Desmond from The Twentieth Century Dog Vol. I by Herbert Compton. The image comes from the 1904 edition. What does the symbolism of this painting suggest?
The “Old Order” is the long-legged, long tailed bulldog, and the “New Order” is the squat monstrosity of canine flesh that is the modern bulldog.
This image denotes change in type.
I don’t have to show you more images. I could go through Stonehenge’s work and show you all the old-type bulldogs. I could dig up bulldog paintings of yore.
I could do all of that.
And the Team Jenneh acolytes would still parrot the line about bulldogs always being like this. I’ve actually been through that Robert Leighton book, and he doesn’t say that bulldogs are fine. Quite the opposite. In fact, the Leighton book just shows how long bulldogs been unusually delicate animals. Puppies died all the time. Bitches had trouble whelping. If only bulldogs had only those problems to worry about today!
The Team Jenneh folks are looking like a bunch of spoiled children who just got their dessert taken away from dinner.
When I was a kid and got in trouble for that sort of thing, we got put on the chair and told “Shamey, shamey!”
Well, here’s your “shamey, shamey” for acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.
Your dog didn’t pass a health exam that you knew it would have to face if it won BOB.
It didn’t.
The ref called a foul.
Get over it!
See related post:
That picture shows a much longer legged bulldog with more nose & no extreme skin fold above his nose, sure it’s still not quite what I’d like to see in a Bulldog but it’s no where near as extreme as what we are seeing today. That type of Bulldog even had problem back then as stated & instead of improving upon the breed as all these show breeders are forever parroting on about they have just compounded upon many of the health issues. They already had problems & along with that they are guilty of adding a few newer & more servere ones while they where at it.
Give me an Aussy or American plain legger type Bulldog any day over one of their deformed dewarfed waddling blue tongued(lack of oxygen) show & pure breed Bulldogs. They are making a fool of themselves & would do better spending as much time & energy on figuring out how to save their breed & start producing dogs that can have normal active long lives.
But it’s so much easier to get on Facebook and complain. And create conspiracy theories.
completely and totally absurd. The bulldog was one of the dogs most often painted in the pre-modern era so we have very clear ideas of what it actually looked like. It was a leggy dog.. and you don’t even see any underbite till late 1890’s. This is as much bullshit as the notion that bullbaiting dogs had their noses on top of their snouts so they could breathe when they had their jaws clamped on the bull’s nose, illustrated by absurd drawings of modern bulldogs bullbaiting.
It’s obvious that ‘Team Jenny’ has not even read the book that they’re linking to, since the pictures in the book illustrate rather clearly how much the breed has changed since it was written.
Compare the proportions of the show Bulldogs in the book to the modern type. They have less wrinkles, more nose, less bone/fat, longer legs (though often severely elbowed out), a more normal-shaped body, and smaller heads often as well… in terms of ‘typey features’ they are clearly Bulldogs, and are really an illustration of how selecting for the constant exaggeration of those features have shaped the modern version of the breed. All anyone has to do is Google ‘Champion Bulldog’ and start comparing photographs, it’s not hard!
Photograph of a Champion Bulldog, 1879:
The fact that even in the face of reams of photgraphic and textual evidence from the early 19th Century that contradicts their claims, they still persist in saying the modern Bulldog is -not- an extreme caricature of what it originally was? It’s delusion on a massive scale.
Actually, the Bulldog is a concocted breed type – a lighter Mastiff that came in various shapes and sizes. The name Bulldog was concocted in England long after King Philip of Spain had opened trade with England. There is no history of the light type mastiffs in England in the Middle Ages in the Pits/Arenas. The light type Mastiffs were used during the American Conquests (as space on ships was limited) where they were found rather useful – even in a small package. As a standard, the APBT or American Staffordshire Terrier should represent the “Bulldog Proper,” as it is higher on leg than the English Staffs. These are the most capable of round ups and catching cattle today. The larger Bulldogs often called American Bulldogs are better suited to guard duty.
no, the APBT and SBT are bulldog AND terrier mixes, one of several concocted in the mid nineteenth century. It is an absolute ahistorical error to ask them to represent a bulldog. The American bulldog has NO terrier component.
As retrieverman noted, most breed histories are bullshit.
If you think the American Bulldog has no terrier component, you are deluding yourself with the same type of racial purity thinking that has destroyed pedigree dogs.
Yes, I would agree with the lack of any real purity of any breed, most especially the Bull/Mastiff breeds. The very test of gameness in the APBT seperates the Bulldogs from the Curs. Still, even in the best of breedings, curs will still be thrownback. However, the Bull/Mastiffs have never been a breed per say, and this is often overlooked as a breed type according to funtion, (as a Pointer Points, A Retriver Retrives) a Bull/Mastiff is a Fighting Dog. Let us look at how concocted the history (especially written in English) really is….
“The Staffordshire Bull Terrier had its beginnings in England many centuries ago when the Bulldog and Mastiff were closely linked. Bullbaiting and bearbaiting in the Elizabethan era produced large dogs for these sports and later on the 100-120 pound animal gave way to a small, more agile breed up to 90lbs.”
AKC
What changed in England at this time was the introduction of the war dogs used in the Conquests of the Americas (including South USA) by King Philip ll of Spain who open trade from 1556 to 1649. Many of these war dogs were the size and type of a Bulldog (Alano/Lebrel – not Bull/Terrier) like Becerrillo who was a small stocky dog. For all intents, the Bulldogs existed in America before the English subvariant.
Some have questioned the existence of this type dog of today, but consider that bull and bear baiting has been replaced by pig baiting. And, Mastiff sized Bulldogs of up to about 120lbs are still used or abused in this bloodsport.
I would challenge you to prove that without any DNA to back up such a theory. When we read books by Wynn of 1886, he writes of all types of crossbreeding of Bull/Mastiffs – except for Terrier. So where does the story of Terrier crosses actually start? While I’ve read a number of books, I have yet to find any before the turn of the century (about 1898 when the UKC started the breed APBT) that even mention Terrier crosses – except for the EBT. Moreover, when I was a child, the American Bulldog did not exist as a breed. As I was taught (by folks much older than JDJ and Alan Scott) any farmer wishing to register his Bulldog, may do so as APBT and earn the honerary title Pit – the hard way.
Calling a “Bulldog” a breed, is like calling a Retriver a breed. A Bulldog is simply a smaller type Alano best suited to round ups which can require catching. The term Alano is neither a breed.
I find it interesting that the white dog in that painting actually looks a lot like a modern American Bull Dog.
That’s no coincidence Mary. The ABD is probably the closest contemporary analog you’ll find to the OEBD.
Actually, it reminds me of an English Bulldog cross. This look comes from the Pug and other Chinese crosses that has led these show type Bulldogs to lose much of their working ability.
In fact, as a few already know, I breed a breed known as White English which predates the American Bulldog. We freely admit, this breed is not English, but derived mainly from Spain with other crosses over the centuries in South USA and is (if registered so) the same breed as APBT (as was Tates Dutches Lady) and even the American Bulldog and Alapaha (as all my stock came from Pastoralits from the 90 mile area of the Alapha River Region. Here is another breed started by Mr Altman of Waycross GA, who very honestly used the breed White English as an outcross to the English Bulldog to create his breed – the Altman White English – which appears much closer to the dog above.
http://altmanwhiteenglshbulldogs.com/
The Bulldog Breed Council has put out a press release
http://www.bulldogbreedcouncil.co.uk/
PL
[…] The irony, of course, is that the Team Jenny (We was robbed!) Facebook group suggested this book as evidence that bulldogs haven’t changed at all. […]
Note that there is no id number in the vet certificate!
PL
“…..by crossing a White English Bulldog with AKC Bulldog…” Thus, we see, these are two seperate breeds. Sadly, the name White English is defined differently according to the breeder and breed club, and is no better defined than the American Bulldog in public circles. Few realize, the ancient use of Mastiffs was to guard the cattle (livestock) of the wolf and brought by the various barbarian nomadic tribes of warriors – also used in warfare. The first major importation into South USA, was by Spain. JDJ of the American Bulldog Club history only told of the English moving into South USA about 1733, and leaves out they went their to drive out the Spanish hold of nearly 200 yrs priror.
The American Bulldog History is well documented in saying the breed arrived from England in 1733 in the area of Savanna GA. But, let’s look at the English Bulldog of 1733…
“Much can happen to change a breed of a dog in fifty years and by inbreeding and breeding with a fixed purpose in view, between the tears of 1686 and 1735, a dog of definate type and of an average weight of 50 to 60lbs, was produced.”
Our Dogs, Voss, 1933
The American Bulldog’s average size is 60 to 120lbs, that being far too large to be a Bulldog, but more of a Mastiff.