Much of his critique of Mech is justified, except that I do agree with Mech that we have to avoid both vilifying and overly romanticizing wolves.
Wolves are still predators, and although they don’t often attack people, they certainly can do a lot of damage to a dog.
The real question is whether wolf numbers in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming have actually reached a sustainable level.
And the bulk of the science says no.
But of course, that hasn’t stopped the US Fish and Wildlife Service from delisting them.
I don’t think that one can make the case that a wolf hunt in Minnesota is unjustified. Minnesota stopped its wolf bounties in the 1960’s, when Governor Karl Rolvaag vetoed the last of the wolf bounty bills that was passed by the state legislature. Minnesota’s DNR is staffed by pretty well-qualified professionals, and I don’t think Minnesota would destroy wolf populations in the same way Idaho would.
I was about to say the same about Wisconsin, but remember, Wisconsin’s government has been taken over by right wing fanatics, and Governor Walker has hired a “deer czar,” who considers wildlife management “the last bastion of communism.” This czar is advising the state on how to privatize its deer herd, which cannot be good for wolves. The problem with Idaho is people think they own the elk and deer, and they want to kill off the wolves, which they think are decimating cervid herds.
I particularly liked Derr’s dig at Mech for scoffing at DNA analysis. The truth is Mech has been very dismissive of genetic studies on wolves, including the discovery that the much-ballyhooed “red wolf” is actually a coyote with some wolf ancestry.
There is still a huge debate about whether delisting the wolf in the Northern Rockies is a sound wildlife management decision. One might say it is entirely a political decision, but let’s keep in mind that the current administration couldn’t win any of those three states.
It seems to me that this is bad policy mixing in with bad politics.
It is true that I do have issues with the wolfaboo image of Canis lupus.
And I certainly have issues with the Little Red Riding Hood image.
I do think we need to have a reality-based assessment of wolves– which are not endangered as a species.
But I don’t think we’re ready to let Idaho manage its wolves.
At some point, we will need to have wolf management plans in place, and Minnesota could be a great model for developing these plans.
Let it be known that I’m not opposed to wolf hunting as a management tool. Wolves are much better off when they have a very healthy fear of people, and whenever wolf packs take to killing dogs or livestock , they need to be culled.
But I don’t think we should go back to the days when wolves were shot, trapped, and poisoned for bounty money. We definitely shouldn’t go back to the days when people caught wolves and tortured them. On the frontier, it was common for people to catch wolves in pits, and they would either hamstring them or bind their jaws shut and turn them dogs on them. Or they would leave a bitch in season tied out, and when the male wolves would mate with her, they would catch them in a tie and hack the wolf up with a hatchet.
There has to be some middle way. I agree with Mech very much in this respect.
But I don’t think we’ve found it yet.
At the very least, if they’re going to allow a cull, they should allow fee-paying sportsmen, on the ground, to do it, not government employees shooting from helicopters or spreading poison baits. I’ve read the figures that ID wants to reduce the packs to and IMO they’re reducing the overall numbers by way too much–the survivors could end up w/ genetic problems like those on Isle Royale. Where wolves have been introduced to control Elk and Deer numbers, the overall habitat and the health of the herds improve. Why can’t those game managers, ranchers, politicos and Elk hunters see that? Management yes, extirpation, no.
I just saw another US reality tv program on the rescued dogs. People invest thousands & thousands of money and effort with high-tech science on those dogs nobody wants nor needs. It really seems there are plenty of them for the wolves to eat .
And if they do – if a man leaves his helpless-bred pet out in the night, don’t blame the wild in the morning next.
In WI they are just rabid to get rid of these “problem” animals. The main argument they used along with “they’re killing all my livestock” was “they are killing all my bear dogs” to justify the hunt coming up. Just frosts me because the bear hunters who hunt with dogs don’t vet them out at all and could care less when one is killed or mauled by a bear. They typically do not live past 4 or 5 years old and that is only if they deemed valuable breeding stock. AND THEN they turn around and lobby to hunt the wolves with the same dogs! GAH!
There is an injunction right now over the safety of the dogs and they will not be allowed this hunt-but since it will go to the state supreme court that is stacked with tea party members, they will uphold the dog hunt because it will infringe upon the rights of the bear hunts that are so “vital” to tourism dollars here.
I am a hunter and take no issues with hunting. I just see the wolf hunt here in WI where they proudly wear shirts that say “wolf the other white meat” as a horrible thing. I also abhor the idea of dog pack hunts on large predators. I know the life they lead. I am all for working functional dogs but something about these types of hunts just make me uneasy.
Kristy
In FB terms, I just clicked ‘Like’ on this post.
Very well said indeed.
Hear hear Kirsty. This is the kind of hunting I abhor. I think I’ve mentioned on another post here that there is a hunter by me who brags about truckloads full of coyotes, and speaks of wolves as “nothing more than wanton, bloodthirsty killers”, the eyes really blazing, which makes me retort “Then you are the WOLF man.”
I know each herd animal killed costs a significant figure, but there are millions upon millions of herd animals and there are estimated losses in every business that one needs to be prepared to deal with. That’s in EVERY business. And BTW in capitalism, there is no guarantee every business will survive.
What really frosts me is that most of these herd animals are grazing on public lands! Thus when there is depredation, they want the Feds to come in and use taxpayer $$ to “solve the problem”.
If you graze cattle or sheep on public lands, then you should expect some predation. Hire more protection–shepherds, cowboys (or girls as the case may be), and animal behavioral specialists, or hire folks like Jess to provide dogs that can handle the big Lobos. Its your dime, stop expecting corporate welfare. Ya’ll are more than ready to demand smaller government and less government interference in your lives. Well here’s a chance to walk the talk. In those cases where a given predator turns solely to stock, elimination is a viable fix. But the days of wiping out native species because they get in the way is over! The day of the Little Red Riding Hood myth is over! The day of Bambi–cutesy–wolfy-poo is over! Get real!
(There you go Suhail–I think my spleen may have equaled yours. LOL)
In BC, when they graze sheep on public lands they employ a number of livestock guardian dogs to deter predators. They don’t ask the government to interfere all the time, although I am afraid I may get corrected on this.
I can’t recall who emailed me but years ago, someone who claimed to work with wolves and ranchers swore that LGDs were useless against wolves. I asked what breeds were tried, and how many? I just kept getting back “It doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter.” Given there are so many more dogs out there, and humans, and livestock, than wild wolves, in terms of numbers, I find it hard to believe no one could employ a sufficient # of dogs to keep things in check. I think its’ a question of ranchers being cheap. Bullets and traps are cheaper than dogs. I’m not out there with first hand experience so I could get corrected easily, but I’m picturing, what would cost more, would be time and effort lobbying congress for kills.
Shooting a wolf illegally could cost heavy fines but it might seem cheaper than lobbying and losing a few sheep or calves, and then someone has to go through the legal mumbo-jumbo of proving who it was to begin with, which could likely be interfered with in a number of ways I haven’t even begun to think of; though someone in the biz would.
In the bad old days they outfitted guard dogs with spiked collars specifically to deter wolf predation. Also, I find it hard to believe that that we can breed dogs that can successfully face off w/ bears, lions, leopards and boars but we can’t breed a combo guard dog and and wolf hound that can stand up to our N. American wolves.
Vote for right wingers, followers of Faux News, and the Tea Baggers, and I guarantee we will not have any predators living in North America in next few decades. Sometimes I feel so ashamed of myself having worked for Republicans during my student days in the 80s.
My apologies for venting out my anger in this manner.
Based on what happens around here with cougars, I’ll bet the local stockmen are going to get their guns out, protection or no. How would they ever prove someone bagged a wolf? I think it makes sense to let the ban stand and hope the locals don’t go too far overboard.
Enforcement in remote properties, inhabited by people who don’t have a lot of respect for the law, will always be a joke.
This is why I was so upset it was delisted. Many of the hunters I know would think nothing of killing a wolf on site-even with a collar. Heck my BSD was threatened by a local yokel at our hunting property in the UP for being too wolfish. My father in law has told me that he would kill any wolf he sees onhis hunting land because they kill “his” deer. They talk about how to move/dispose of the carcasses. The best I can do is say that if I ever get wind they have killed wolf I will turning them in even if it means I cannot hunt anymore. . . but then again I don’t consider hunting a failure if I don’t bag a big buck every year either.
To think one of the first things that attracted me to the groenendael was the wolfy resemblence. If I ever get one I’ll be sure to keep the yokels in check. Possibly mapped out and GPS’d. Is there an ArcView program for Yokelism?
One more aside. . .There was a study done in northern WI and the Southwest UP that found many of the wolves the DNR had to kill for predation on livestock (that area is where the most predation ioccurs) were wolf dog mixes. There are packs of feral dogs in that area and I am more worried about them than wolves. Wolves run and hide from humans around here. . .the feral dogs and wolf dogs have no fear of man. . .
Kristy
Here’s one professiona’s viewpoint. I like how she says that this isn’t the problem for most folks because due to a history of decimation, most states don’t have the “luxury” of wolf overpopulation.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/hunting-wolves-with-dogs-in-wisconsin
In a world of 7 billion humans, I doubt Wisconsin really has a “surplus.”