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by Scottie Westfall

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Did that actually work?

June 30, 2019 by SWestfall3

bulldog

For years, this blog and many others gained lots of views by constantly harping on brachycephalic breeds, especially bulldogs and pugs.  Those were in the days when I was a bit more edgelord in technique, and those were the days when I was significantly more sanctimonious and humorless as person, too.

Sometimes, the ol’ ‘possum spends all his time climbing the persimmon tree, only to discovery the tree is a hickory.  And then he has to climb down and figure out where the persimmon tree actually is.

This is where I am as a person, as a blogger/writer, and as a dog enthusiast. The persimmon tree is somewhere else, and that means taking stock of where I once was and how I can do better.

The issues with brachycephalic breeds are that they never fully oxygenate themselves, and they often have a hard time cooling themselves. I know of certain blogs that spend post after post looking a bulldog and pug nostrils with lots of shaming involved.

The problem is that pet people most don’t care what sanctimonious internet personalities think, and the dog show people, especially those at the top of the game, don’t care either.  The show dog people are going to spend money on health testing and c-sections on their bulldogs, and they will sell them at a high price to homes with resources to care for them.

As pets, they can live full and wonderful lives. They don’t have to have the endurance of a Dalmatian or  German short-haired pointer.

Further, all this shaming didn’t work at all. The popularity of these dogs continues to be quite high. And this shaming has given fuel to the anti-breeder sentiment in the country, which revels in creating division among dog people. This division is why we are getting so many weird laws passed in state houses, ones that ultimately harm responsible dog breeders and do nothing to improve animal welfare.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that what I’ve written about bulldogs and the like in previous years, though well-meaning,  has ultimately been harmful to the things I love the most.

Even if the welfare issues associated with brachycephalic dogs were the greatest issue facing dogs today, shaming people won’t solve the problem.  People will dig in and tell you how awful you are, and whatever wisdom you might have will be simply ignored.

And when we look at the actual welfare issues facing these breeds are they really suffering all that much?  If they live in homes where they are pampered and well-cared for, they are doing pretty well, better than perhaps a billion people living on this planet.

I support educating and disclosing what potential risks of owning a bulldog or pug might entail. I guarantee you that the ethical breeders producing these dogs are disclosing these risks to puppy buyers.

And that should be all that is required of breeder of any breed or strain.

If bulldogs, French bulldogs, and pugs really do have this level of welfare concern, then it will become obvious. In ten years, the craze will have swept through the pet market, and people will be buying something other fad breed.

But I suspect that these health and welfare problems are much easier to mitigate than we have been led to believe, and if they are, why did I waste so much time with this nonsense?

It didn’t even work. And I was a total jerk.

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Posted in animal welfare | Tagged brachycephalic dogs, bulldog, pugs | 16 Comments

16 Responses

  1. on June 30, 2019 at 12:17 pm Estelle Bowden

    Are they suffering that much? You ask.

    While I appreciate your sentiments I am afraid the answer to that question is Yes – yes they are suffering and yes it is that much.

    I am an asthmatic. I have experienced being unable to fully oxygenate myself as you so delicately put it. During it logical thought and general human understanding is out the window – it takes over everything, you become the basic animal – and the overwhelming sensation is of sheer terror. This is not a scary movie or car crash or threat of violence this is your body screaming at you it needs air, must have air, is dying. Second to second unless and until that oxygen arrives is terror.

    Yes maybe shaming is not effective – but we sure as hell need these “weird” laws that force breeders to provide their animals with the basic ability to oxygenate themselves.


  2. on June 30, 2019 at 1:46 pm kittenz

    They are suffering. Hypoxia sucks, whether it’s from a plastic bag over the head or from shitty conformation.

    You’re right about the owner-shaming, though; in fact, I think that some people – those families that buy extremely brachy dogs over and over, one dies & a month later they have a new puppy – those people LIKE having a dog that needs all kinds of special tratment just to stay alive. You hear them talking sometimes, trying to outdo one another with how much they’ve spent on their dogs’ medical needs. It’s a weird kind of status symbol.

    In one clinic where I worked for several years, we had a little inside joke that people would be happy if their dogs would self-destruct after the cute puppy stage wears off. It was just a joke, but jokes have a funny way of exposing reality (pun not intended).

    If people are happy with dogs that could drop dead of heatstroke on a moderately warm day, die at 5 or 6 y/o, have to be manually assisted to breed “naturally”, and almost always have to be born by C-sec, then shaming them isn’t going to change any minds.


  3. on June 30, 2019 at 2:06 pm Skye M James-MacLeod

    I mean, most of these type of breeds, people seem to be very aware, and in the dog daycare environment I work in, we’re always aware. That said, I’ve seen French Bulldogs that can outlast most other small dogs with immense ease, and one really fit Pug that could do the same. I feel like there’s an over simplification by judging these types by their ‘cover’. We don’t ask ‘is this dog fit’, ‘is the breed encouraged to be more rolly-polly than they probably should be’-because gods know I’ve seen old, overweight dogs with breathing issues. And as for c-sections, I can’t help but to question that we have these ‘smallish breeds’ with width and weight of a dog that would be larger if they had more leg and less compact-ness to them. Bulldogs can naturally whelp, but the video I saw of one doing so, but she had a litter of 8. Where consider a Dane with even a singleton will likely need a c-section. Higher litter numbers making it more likely to naturally whelp in any breed? Maybe we should ponder this more. We should probably ponder a lot of things more.


  4. on June 30, 2019 at 2:18 pm karjasancroix

    I mean, most of these type of breeds, people seem to be very aware, and in the dog daycare environment I work in, we’re always aware. That said, I’ve seen French Bulldogs that can outlast most other small dogs with immense ease, and one really fit Pug that could do the same. I feel like there’s an over simplification by judging these types by their ‘cover’. We don’t ask ‘is this dog fit’, ‘is the breed encouraged to be more rolly-polly than they probably should be’-because gods know I’ve seen old, overweight dogs with breathing issues. And as for c-sections, I can’t help but to question that we have these ‘smallish breeds’ with width and weight of a dog that would be larger if they had more leg and less compact-ness to them. Bulldogs can naturally whelp, but the video I saw of one doing so, but she had a litter of 8. Where consider a Dane with even a singleton will likely need a c-section. Higher litter numbers making it more likely to naturally whelp in any breed? Also, do you think it’s possible that c-section rates may be skewed because it’s become ‘standard operating procedures’ in some breeds out of the fact that it’s cheaper and more responsible to just schedule a c-section with a vet the breeder trusts than risk having to go to an emergency clinic where you don’t know if you can really trust the vets (there’s been more than one incident of an e-vet spaying a bitch without permission)? Maybe we should ponder this more. We should probably ponder a lot of things more.


  5. on June 30, 2019 at 2:36 pm Bonnie

    So, presenting irrefutable facts regarding the harm of extreme brachycephaly is “shaming?” Ok. The question should be, then, “If shaming doesn’t work, then what will?” Looks like legislation is the only thing that will work, and I HATE that idea. Since “shaming” doesn’t work, it doesn’t make it ok to endorse the breeding of dogs who can’t eat or breathe properly. These wonderful dogs deserve better.


  6. on June 30, 2019 at 4:59 pm Merrie Richardson

    One of the saddest statements of this piece in my opinion is this: “I support educating and disclosing what potential risks of owning a bulldog or pug might entail. I guarantee you that the ethical breeders producing these dogs are disclosing these risks to puppy buyers. And that should be all that is required of breeder of any breed or strain.” Apply this logic to people producing say, Dobermans who may drop dead from DCM, or Cavs with SM…so breeders can knowingly produce dogs that are prone to awful diseases that may cause them great pain, suffering, and a shortened lifespan as long as those breeders disclose the risk? Why? Furthermore, how do you square the term “ethical breeders” with this?


  7. on July 1, 2019 at 1:48 pm al smith

    Merrie..ask yourself who does the most health testing and supports research to improve dog breeds and general health.. if you say PETa/ASPCA/HSUS etc you would be wrong do you support health testing do you screen all of your dogs for heart kidney etc every time you breed.. do shelters even bother to health test any dog they place.. no they dont you know who does support health testing and research? BREEDERS that who.. breeders do NOT KNOWING produce dogs with health problems.. they are the ones uncovering the problems and solving them.. thanks to breeders in my breed we now have a dna test for a lethal gene .. no group supported that research except our breed and AKC Caniin Health Foundation.. you can certainly give them a donation..I am sure they would appreciate it. That would be ethical..


  8. on July 1, 2019 at 1:58 pm Rose Marie Holt

    You don’t have to be a jerk to educate or advocate. Keep educating & advocating. Pet people felt betrayed by breeders. Breeders felt betrayed by pet people. So let’s get over our defensiveness & keep advocating for the dogs.


  9. on July 1, 2019 at 2:03 pm rmholt

    Keep educating & advocating. Pet people deserve healthy dogs & breeders deserve a better education than they get from just doing things because that’s how they’ve always been done. Ridgeless ridgeback pups aren’t killed anymore. People, breeders and owners, are at least aware of issues & vets are more comfortable addressing them. We don’t have to be jerks. We were SEEN AS jerks by overly defensive people – so what. We HAVE made a difference. Let’s keep advocating for dogs and doing so by advocating for breeders and pet owners.


  10. on July 1, 2019 at 8:53 pm Merrie Richardson

    Oh Al, really? Do you honestly think shelters, overrun by poorly bred dogs born in backyards and garages, sold on Craigslist, etc. have the time and resources to health test dogs? Of course not. They are cleaning up the mess left by clearly unethical breeders who don’t bother screening homes and generally don’t provide a plan for ensuring their pups stay out of shelters. I’m not sure what in my response may have suggested that I’m a fan of profit-driven animal “welfare” groups like PETA and HSUS. I’m not. I just think that brachycephalic dogs deserve better since we *know* better. There is so much resistance coming from many *show breeders* about any little bit of moderation in phenotype. What’s their reason? The almighty “breed standard” and tradition, of course! They claim they love their dogs, and their joyous temperaments, well guess what? Their personalities aren’t inextricably tied to their short muzzles. I’ve never thought that *all breeders* couldn’t care less about health and welfare; I acknowledge the many purebred enthusiasts are doing right by their dogs and the dog-loving public. But with the advancements in science, health testing, knowledge of population genetics, etc., I’m afraid my standards for what I consider an “ethical breeder” are quite high. That doesn’t mean I hate all breeders. I just acknowledge that dogs are living, breathing, feeling creatures who also become much-loved family companions. So shouldn’t we all want to do the best we can for them? That’s not a radical idea. It’s compassion.


  11. on July 2, 2019 at 2:21 pm al smith

    Merrie as if breeders who health test have no compassion. so you are claiming they do not love their dogs because they breed to a standard? are you claiming those breeders are not doing the best they can and that they do not tell the buyers the problems in the breed as well as the benefits? People who make comments that demean breeders are almost always PETA/HSUS supporters in some way or another just as you assume there are few “ethical” breeders when indeed there are many..it is in fact those “show breeders” who keep dogs out of shelters… and yes if shelters have the ability to ship dogs with diseases all over the country and import them by the thousands with unknown diseases and spread them all over this country as well then yes they have the ability to health test those dogs they are sending into the public.. temperament test as well .. retail rescue is real..by the way most shelters are not “overrun” not if they ship dogs in from other countries.. or even from other states on a regular basis


  12. on July 2, 2019 at 2:28 pm retrieverman

    It’s been a long time since we had a debate on this blog, and people have kept every thing intelligent and civil. Thank you so much!


  13. on July 2, 2019 at 9:37 pm Merrie Richardson

    Al, again, you are making a whole heck of a lot of assumptions from my response. I acknowledge that there are both unethical “rescues” and unethical breeders. This isn’t a black and white issue. Not all rescues import disease-ridden dogs from foreign countries, just as not all breeders are unethical in regards to treating the written standard as more important than overall health. Locally, here in Kentucky, the shelter a few miles from me is often overrun with animals. They don’t import dogs – they export! They regularly send dogs up north as there’s more demand for them and more resources available (e.g. foster homes willing to work with less-than-stellar temperaments). They regularly have reduced-fee or even no-fee adoption events because they get so crowded.

    Do all these shelter dogs come from show breeders? By and large, of course not. *Most* people successful in the dog show world don’t let their pups end up in shelters. So right there is something positive that I acknowledge. I am not against breeders by any means and in fact, my next dog will likely come from a small-scale breeder.

    Let me make this clear though, so that I hope people won’t continue to make assumptions and put words in my mouth: It is my belief that breeding dogs with severely brachycephalic faces, tails prone to being ingrown, underbites with rotated and crowded teeth (basically, what the English bulldog breed standard calls for, whether stated or not) is not ethical by its very nature. Many people with disagree with my assessment, and that’s fine. I believe that dogs that have these features are predisposed to myriad perfectly preventable health issues, and as such, breeders should embrace the science that clearly informs us that brachycephaly is a skeletal deformity with health risks. I wouldn’t even go so far as to say “we must not breed these breeds anymore.” I am in the camp that says moderation is good. We can still have dogs that clearly are of a bulldog, pug, French bulldog type, etc.; but with minimal standards in regards to muzzle: skull ratio, for example. I think that’s perfectly reasonable and if the breeders love their dogs more than the written standards, more than tradition, and more than the shows, it’s a no-brainer.

    I have personally met SO MANY dogs of severely brachycephalic breeds that struggle to just live good lives. Insanely noisy breathers, eyes that were lost as they are housed in shallow sockets and are prone to injury; reduced ability to tolerate temps that don’t bother “normal” dogs, skin folds that become infected; ingrown tails; a reduced ability to simply run and play and breathe freely. I work in a dog daycare and boarding facility and all the kennel attendants are aware that we have to be especially careful with certain breeds on hot days. Are all these dogs I’ve encountered from top show breeders? Likely not. But it does say something about the flaws in this brachycephalic “blueprint.” These are problems we don’t see with nearly the same frequency in more normally proportioned, non-brachy breeds whose standards don’t demand such features.

    I guess my question is this: at what price do mere physical standards (which are honestly so incredibly superficial and unimportant in the grand scheme of things and the history of the human-canine bond) come at? Is it worth maintaining the extreme features? If even 5% of dogs of these breeds suffer from such things as BOAS and inability to effectively thermoregulate, does that justify simply throwing up our hands and declaring “eh, they don’t all suffer, so let’s not do anything?” Having recently lost my heart dog to cancer & megaesophagus – something that was *completely unpredictable* given his physical condition, superb care, and breed mixture – I just can’t believe that the folks who claim to love these breeds the most aren’t doing absolutely *everything* in their power to ensure dogs of these breeds are born healthy and remain healthy for as long as possible. And don’t get me started on dog breeds with insanely high cancer rates – how sad and depressing when we could improve things if we truly wanted to, using the best science to guide us? One only has to look at the scientific literature regarding brachycephaly in dogs to see the grim picture. I honestly think that the written standards and show culture can be taken too seriously – and placed at a higher priority than many dog lovers would like to see.


  14. on July 2, 2019 at 11:49 pm L

    Scottie, surely you’ve read this story from a veterinarian before, and I take it you no longer jive with Harrison, but you should read it again anyway:

    http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2017/01/fighting-for-air-their-whole-lives.html

    “This frequently leads to the moment – a moment that regularly sends cold chills down my spine – when you realise that these dogs, while fully conscious, are enjoying the ability to breathe without effort (through a tube) for the first time in their life. I know that I am anthropomorphising unashamedly but nonetheless: when you pull the tube eventually, the wheezing starts up again and you see – I swear to high heaven – a glaze of resignation and disappointment fall over their eyes that were previously bright with fascination.”

    Other vet professionals have similar stories, as the comments on that post show, and there are more here as well (plus a “cute” photo): https://www.reddit.com/r/VetTech/comments/9j2f7g/gotta_love_a_bulldog_that_doesnt_want_to_give_up/. One that sticks out in my mind, from another thread, is an English bulldog who was put under. His gums went from purple to pink. It wasn’t pigmentation like it appeared, it was a lack of oxygenated blood. He spends every day like that. The breeder can do all the health testing, selective pairing, and owner educating they want. It is still unspeakably cruel to produce such an animal, to doom him to a life of hypoxia.

    This isn’t about athletic ability. No, they do not need the stamina of a sporting breed, the same way any other little companion dog doesn’t. But they need to be able to draw a full breath of air. I’m not asking for them to look like American bulldogs or Puggles; they just need *something* on their faces and a good look at their nostrils, soft palates and tracheas before breeding decisions are made. Pomeranians, Cavalier King Charles, Shih Tzus all do generally fine with short tiny muzzles, even if I prefer their more moderate counterparts for my own purposes (Throwback Pomeranians look like such cool adventure dogs). Even many Boston Terriers and EB-like Olde English Bulldogges do alright for themselves. You educate the owner not to jog them in hot weather, you keep them slim, and they can lead comfortable existences oxygen-wise with all our modern conveniences i.e. ice, A/C, owners doting on them like babies. With many extreme brachys, comfort is quite possibly never. All the A/C, ice pack collars, and diets in the world won’t get them there.

    We must also remember that dogs hide their pain and discomfort, and the bulldog in particular is so known for stoicness that owners are warned about it – they might not give any indication if they are hungry, hurt, sick, etc. An injury may not be discovered until a week later, or so I’ve heard. Frenchies and Pugs are bred for merriment and a very accepting nature; I suspect their great spirits do much to mask problems too. As well, there is probably a considerable degree of habituation to their condition when it’s their constant reality.

    The appearance isn’t all there is to determining difficulty (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170801140548.htm) and I take it that’s why you get these occasional oddball cases like flat-faced Bulldogs energetically skateboarding in the middle of the day. But there is obviously a connection and a kennel or breed club allowing, encouraging, or even mandating greater moderation (probably via retraining show judges) can’t possibly hurt. Especially with the nostrils, that one being the biggest of the possible determiners per that study. The possibility of supposedly world-destroying changes in features aside, a club could simply put a vet-determined respiratory grading scheme into place and ensure it is followed and publicized.

    As for the C-sections… yeah, they cost a lot, yeah, the breeder usually has considerable stock in the dog to order such a procedure (but to suggest there are not backyard breeders or puppy millers involved with these breeds would be dead wrong, as many veterinarians who perform these surgeries and examine newly purchased puppies, as well as “puppies for sale” websites can attest – examples http://lordof1.blogspot.com/2013/11/breeding-difficulties.html, https://www.reddit.com/r/VetTech/comments/8rd3ny/csection_baby_from_an_english_bulldog_this_was/, https://www.reddit.com/r/VetTech/comments/6ngjdx/reasons_not_to_have_a_french_bull_dog/). But any bout of anesthesia is not without risk, namely of sudden death, especially with these respiratory-challenged breeds and their extra-narrow airways. Breeding a bitch knowing full well you will have to put her life (and her litter’s) on the line to get the puppies out is, I think, unethical. She also dies if you don’t do the surgery. Either way, quite a high risk of death for a breeding choice. Doing this multiple times with the same bitch is really something else. I don’t want to say they’re choosing to put the dog in harm’s way, but that would be a reasonable viewpoint. No doubt the dedicated breeders care very much for their dogs, but they are suffering from some incredibly severe kennel blindness not to step back and examine this critically. As for the puppies, considerable chance that the timing of the surgery will be “wrong” and the nurturing hormones haven’t dropped yet. They might drop once mom sees the pups. They might not. Mom might refuse to care for them or she might try to kill them. Heat-pack bottle baby time. Risky and no fun for anyone involved. They also don’t get the irreplaceable doggy education that mom provides.

    A final point:
    “Our findings also support the assumptions that breeding for short noses has had a detrimental effect on olfaction; causing short-nosed breeds to have the worst performances out of the breed groups we measured. This may be connected to brachycephalia, a condition that generally comes hand-in-hand with having a short-nose, and which is known to have a negative impact on the movement of air through the nasal passages [37,38]. Considering that the ability to gather olfactory information is an important aspect of being a dog, whether or not this apparent reduced ability has any implications for the welfare of these breeds should be further assessed.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4859551/ If shitty scenting ability isn’t deprivation for a dog, I don’t know what is.


  15. on July 3, 2019 at 2:09 am L

    One more:
    “If bulldogs, French bulldogs, and pugs really do have this level of welfare concern, then it will become obvious. In ten years, the craze will have swept through the pet market, and people will be buying something other fad breed.”

    I really, really doubt it. At least, not without public education that manages to get through to them. The welfare problems, or rather, simple peculiarities, are “normal for the breed” and therefore not really problems.

    “Despite reports of high frequency and severe clinical signs of BOAS, 58% (18/31) of the owners of BOAS-Affected dogs reported that their dog did not currently have, or have a history of, breathing problems. This even included 7/17 of the owners of formally affected dogs referred for this disorder, who reported no breathing problem despite the official diagnosis. This was yet more pronounced in the 14 affected dogs that were not referred for BOAS, of which only three owners perceived a breathing problem in their dog. Additional spontaneous comments were provided by eight of the owners, in explanation of their answer ‘No’, to the question of the presence of breathing problems. These comments comprised: “No to breathing problem — other than being a Bulldog” and “(No,) but he is a Pug!”, with six other owners simply stating the breed name (two Pugs, two Bulldogs, one Pekingese and one French Bulldog) in paren-theses next to this question when answering ‘No’.”
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225280218_Do_dog_owners_perceive_the_clinical_signs_related_to_conformational_inherited_disorders_as_'normal'_for_the_breed_A_potential_constraint_to_improving_canine_welfare

    Another commenter identified families having a brachy suffer problems or die young, then buying another. Have watched 2 different clients and a relative do this. Have also spectated at the dog budget Olympics. Lots of “greedy vet” implications and designer diets. (As an aside, less numbers tossed around outside the brachy and long-back circles, but I have found the vet complaints, conspiracy theorism, and funky care routines to be most concentrated in the most genetically troubled breeds. The Dane people I know are unmatched, with the Boxers in a close second. It doesn’t seem that their dogs live any longer than others of the breed, though…)

    A friend pointed out that many owners and breeders (surely not ragging on all of them! Just think of some of the show folks you encounter out there who are genuinely offbeat or ignorant, and of course there are the home-grown breeders) actually seem to view breeds more like they’re different species. All the “normal” breed-specific health problems, structural defects, temperament troubles, very short lifespans and what have you seem to line up with this thought. Completely impossible breed origin stories and tales of supernatural abilities unlike any others in dogdom also come to mind.

    The dog world and choices made within it are very emotionally driven. Fuzzy faces drive us to logical suicide, it seems. Magnified by the lack of scientific background in most people.


  16. on July 4, 2019 at 6:17 am Julie Vaughan

    Yep, this is the bit that really got to me. I too know the discomfort and sometimes utter panic of insufficient oxygen. To live with this as as a permanent state, I can’t imagine the horror.

    “This frequently leads to the moment – a moment that regularly sends cold chills down my spine – when you realise that these dogs, while fully conscious, are enjoying the ability to breathe without effort (through a tube) for the first time in their life. I know that I am anthropomorphising unashamedly but nonetheless: when you pull the tube eventually, the wheezing starts up again and you see – I swear to high heaven – a glaze of resignation and disappointment fall over their eyes that were previously bright with fascination.”



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