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by Scottie Westfall

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« In defense of purebred dogs
Towards a nuanced understanding of inbreeding and dogs »

The problem with the PDE movement

July 30, 2019 by SWestfall3

dare legs

I know I have lost readers because I no longer write what I once did about purebred dogs. I was part of a movement, though of a keyboard warrior type, that had a lot of heart and passion but not a lot of practical skills in influencing people.

Further, as I’ve spent a lot more time in dogs, I’ve had time to reflect upon the true problems facing the species.  The real problem is almost never a serious hobbyist breeder producing health-tested puppies. Even if there are some potential welfare issues with extreme conformation, these are much more easily mitigated than I once believed or is currently being promoted on the internet.

The way this movement got started is through outrage. If you follow any of the personalities associated with this movement, especially me around the years 2010-2012, you will notice a tendency to use outrage as a muse, to use anger to inflect the voice, and to be a general asshole online.

Did I get a lot more hits doing this sort of writing? You bet. People are attracted to conflict. People are attracted to someone shouting at the powers that be, even if the words are all coming from a space of ignorance.

This movement has been around for about 25 years. When blogs took off, those that focused on these issues drew a lot of attention.

Over time, a sort of lynch mob mentality has taken hold when it comes to purebred dogs, and now there are people whose whole shtick is feeding that lynch mob.

But to do so one must find the outrage. The red meat is hard to come by, so bile will do.  And some of these personalities are the most obnoxious, joyless people you will ever encounter.

And I am sure that I was just as obnoxious and joyless back then.

I will admit that has been a challenge for me to come out as having changed my mind. The reason is simple. I promoted myself as an expert who knew facts. I fed the outrage machine, and to step away from the community that thinks it knows you and admit error is to invite lots of hatred. I am a Quisling, a Benedict Arnold.

I am in one of these weird positions where I get comments that contain all the information that I’ve not only read but have used in my previous life, and I now think this information is mostly, well, not the full story.

To become an adult is to accept nuance. To become a skeptic means to challenge what one believes on a regular basis.

But so much of what is being fed in this rather toxic movement isn’t speaking to adults. It is not encouraging critical thought or skepticism. It is about feeding the beast, and now the beast is coupled together with an animal rights movement that hates almost everything I stand for.

These lynch mobs will see dogs legislated out of anything meaningful. Unless you’re super wealthy, you will be forced to get a sketchy rescue dog from a shelter, because the well-bred ones either won’t exist or will be so expensive, no one but the super-wealthy can afford them.

And as we watch the final dying off of social democracy in the West, and corrupt and feckless politicians from these parties will throw what’s left of their base a bone with insane animal rights legislation. They won’t protect social safety net for the poor, but they will save the puppies from evil dog breeders.

I’d rather not feed into any of this nonsense. I’d rather enjoy dogs and hope that this beast can be kept at bay as long as possible.

So I am not feeding into this outrage anymore. The fact that so many will go elsewhere to find this outrage now that I’m not producing it gives me very little hope for the future.

All I can do is correct the errors and hope that someone might listen.

 

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Posted in animal welfare | Tagged pedigree dogs exposed, purebred dog | 9 Comments

9 Responses

  1. on July 30, 2019 at 12:40 pm UrbanCollieChick

    As with ANY group online, there were lynch mob types but also, good voices. PDE still has a lot of rational thinkers. You were one of them.

    Despite being a writer, you expressed your own personal experiences with dogs, via your family, knowing what was in your area, the traditions of hunting within your locality, etc.

    The show world is still relatively new for you. Yes you’ve been doing it for awhile but not like those who have been in it for 10, 20, 30 or more years. You could very well come full circle. Anti, then pro, then more and more critical of certain issues within, then back to where you were. People make circles all the time. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll stay in and take steps to change certain things from the inside, for the better. That would be grand.

    But as you do say yourself that certain conformation extremes that can be a welfare issue, if they are easy to mitigate, I say, let’s get ON that.

    What changes seem to bring moderation to show GSDs, are moderate FOR show GSDs given the current situation. They aren’t moderate for dogs on the whole.


  2. on July 30, 2019 at 12:50 pm kittenz

    Some problems are genuine health issues that need to be exposed so that they can be addressed and corrected.

    And many breeders – not just show breeders but breeders of working and, yes, pet dogs, who care about their breed(s), are beginning to utilize advances in health & genetics testing to begin to address their breed’s problems.

    In many breeds, there’s still a long way to go; and then there are breeds such as my beloved GSDs, where actual breed splits have introduced different sets of problems depending on which split you’re looking at. It’ll take time to correct some of the real problems, and time to educate some of the judges who’ve literally come to see the anomalies as what a “correct” dog is supposed to look like.

    But I agree, there is an awful lot of “like-mongering” and “fear-mongering” going on. And controversy sells (or at least, gets attention).


  3. on July 30, 2019 at 6:37 pm LaEscura

    What does PDE stand for?


    • on July 30, 2019 at 7:14 pm retrieverman

      Pedigree Dogs Exposed, named for the documentary that is centered around it.


  4. on July 30, 2019 at 7:26 pm L

    “I am in one of these weird positions where I get comments that contain all the information that I’ve not only read but have used in my previous life, and I now think this information is mostly, well, not the full story.”

    At the risk of sounding instigative – not my intention – I would be interested to know what “the full story” is.

    Objective scientific fact, for example, inbreeding depression results in XYZ, an elongated soft palate causes greater difficulty drawing oxygen, the metatarsus is bone with no shock absorption properties, a lower hip-and-knee position in the domestic dog alters various factors of movement and ability, and on and on, cannot really be argued with.

    Whether or not these things are problems, and to what extent, is largely subjective. But it would seem silly to shrug off fact or critical discussion of such for any reason – because good breeders are doing health testing, because show-bred dogs are simply pets and not doing XYZ work, because there are people who are mad about purebred dogs, because you haven’t seen an issue in the dogs in your own life, whatever it is.

    Nor is this sort of discussion exclusive to PDE-type circles; I don’t know about other breeds, but from my own experience, it’s abound in the GSD world. In show lines, in working lines, by breeders, owners, judges. Not just some of the WL people going “SL bad” (surprisingly few relative to how many there are, there is an acknowledgement of different purposes and BS myths), actual thoughtful criticism by SL fanciers of SL dogs and vice versa. Typically it’s not as deep or scientific as I’d like it to be, but it’s there. And Fred Lanting has been at it since, what, the 1960s?

    At the end of the day, with all the structure grievances aside, my problem is that the dogs just aren’t living long enough and they’re regularly having too many health issues, even the best-bred working lines. While incidence of HD and DM have steadily dropped, most of the rest have only gotten worse. See inbreeding depression. See closed stud book. See “what can you do” attitude. See priorities in the wrong order.

    I don’t think honesty, creative scientific thinking, and thoughtful open discussion can possibly hurt a breed or the purebred dog fancy. The silly outrage approach can, though I will repeat my belief that its impacts have been remarkably small (ask your neighbors with their new Bulldog puppy), and my great doubt that good breeders will be pushed out of existence. No legislative attempt has been too successful thus far (thanks AKC, though I know it’s not for the hobby breeders), and there is still a massive appetite for purebred and ‘designer-bred’ puppies. Even still, the way to prevent such a thing wouldn’t be to huddle together and seal ourselves off from criticism. It would be to show the public that we’re not sitting up in a castle tower away from the peasants, and very valid concerns are being addressed. This assumes genetic welfare concerns would be the reason, though – much more likely it would be mistaken beliefs about dog overpopulation and some bit about hobby breeders neglecting kennels of dogs and making big profits. Good idea to tackle those.


  5. on July 31, 2019 at 4:21 am Jemima Harrison

    I think it’s OK to change your mind based on your experience, Scottie. I’m not sure it’s OK to dismiss the “movement” as being fuelled by self-aggrandising typists when it is so strongly rooted in science.

    For me personally, it has been hard for me to walk away because I am confronted with the issues every day – first by being involved with the research + veterinary community and, second, by being a port-of-call for those worrying about issues (and asking for help) in their own breeds.

    As you may be aware, brachycephalics have come a huge focus because their soaring popularity and very well documented health issues make this urgent. I believe we’re making some progress. One thing the “movement” has certainly done is drive research money to the issue so we can at least put some numbers on it.

    Enjoy this time getting to know the ‘other’ side; you’re clearly getting a buzz out of being more hands on with more dogs and of course there are good people there who love their animals. I can understand that being compelling.

    All best, Jemima


    • on July 31, 2019 at 12:29 pm retrieverman

      I don’t disagree that there are problems with brachycephalics, but the problem isn’t going to be shamed or vilified into resolution. There are lots of these dogs that live better than maybe a billion people on the earth– with access to food, clean water, and health care services. The trick to see whether these dogs are suffering is to check their cortisol levels and compare them to mesocephalics and dolichocephalics under the same conditions to see if they are truly stressed in normal exercise.

      I also think we made too much of pugs and pekes being placed upon cooling packs at shows. The breeds are evaluated with their mouths shut (unlike GSD, which are supposed to be evaluated panting). To keep them from panting before being examined, it is important to keep them cooler than normal.

      We have a pekingese client right now that is pretty extreme, though of the pet type, but he is far more heat tolerant than the whippets and greyhound. All that fast twitch muscle makes it hard for them to cool themselves, but I have yet to see anyone mention this problem in these breed, because it’s a functional. We monitor all of our dogs when they are running about in heat and we always have water jugs on hand to cool them. It’s always the whippets and the greyhound that need it first.


      • on July 31, 2019 at 5:27 pm LaEscura

        Interesting the fast-twitch muscle suggestion. My own mesocephalic mid-sized and athletically built dog also runs into issues with overheating when exerting himself in temperatures over 20 C., and I guess that’s why. I don’t think he would do that well as a herding (what his breed was traditionally used for) or agility dog because of that. He does much better with heavy exertion in the water.


  6. on July 31, 2019 at 5:41 pm LaEscura

    And I don’t think that the problems with brachy dogs are so much to do with inbreeding depression but more of a structural issue – if you cross two breeds as unrelated as a Pug to a Frenchie, the chances are good that they will throw extreme brachy puppies with the same brachy-related risks and complications as either parent. GSDs seem to be over-represented with gastrointestinal issues and sensitivities – not just EPI and bloat but also IBS and IBD, and unfortunately in the case of almost all canine digestive disorders believed to be heriditary, the genes/alleles associated with haven’t yet been identified. I’ve also heard of many GSD mixes with stomach issues.



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