The winner of this year’s Westminster Kennel Club dog show is “Stump.”
The dog has an appropriate name for a dog breed that has totally been wrecked as a working dog.
The original Sussex spaniels where not basset hound spaniels. In fact, they looked a lot like a breed we call the field spaniel. ( I suspect that the field spaniel might have absorbed the last functional Sussex spaniels.)
This painting by George Stubbs shows a working Sussex spaniel. This painting dates to 1782. The dog has longer legs. It is less exaggerated, and as was the custom in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, the tail is docked by only 1/3 or 1/2.
Compare that working Sussex spaniel with the modern day field spaniel:
The field spaniel is the intermediate spaniel between the English springer and English cocker varieties. At one time, you could get fields, English and Welsh springers, and English cockers out of the same litter.
For some reason, someone thought that the Sussex spaniel needed to look like a tootsie roll, and they have been that way for a very long time.
The Clumbers and Sussex are usually not used for work anymore, although there is an interest in breeding working Clumbers. (The show Clumber resembles a cross between a St. Bernard and a spaniel).
And the reason for this is that the Sussex as a show dog is entirely too slow as a beater’s dog or a flushing dog. And it’s too slow, because its legs are too short and its gait too coarse. The theory that short-legged dogs make better flushers because they can enter the undergrowth better is easily proven false. In reality, a big dog can flush most wild birds, but if the birds are too wild and too wise to flush, you are better off with a working English cocker than a tootsie roll. A smaller, fast dog with normal proportions in leg is far better than a mid-sized dog with short legs and a very inefficient gait.
The show ring has largely wrecked this once functional spaniel, and this should be what we’re thinking about when we see one win a dog show.
Yippee! I was hoping you’d give us “the resl story” on Sussex Spaniels! Love the painting.
Several of my ag collegues have Springers that they love, but most of my buddies told me to get a herding dog and I’m very happy with Pepper.
One of Pepper’s best buds is a black, 10 pound Cockapoo that unfortunately, I bet came from a puppy mill, but definately has heart and wants to be a true hunting Spaniel. One of the best things in the world is watching Pepper (probably Border Collie/Shiba Inu) and Roxie (puppy mill cockapoo) wandering through the wood together — they just seem so completely in their element.
If I ever get my own land, I’ll definately be taking the two of them hunting with me. It may take us longer than the “bred to the field” dogs, but I think the 3 of us will be able to get the jobs done (varmits and deer so that I can grow in peace and they won’t have to eat purchased dog food! ;-D)
Thanks again for the Sussex Spaniel info.
Some American cockers have these instincts. Even Cavalier King Charles spaniels have some hunting instinct.
Plus, the poodle could be used as a spaniel. http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/35629444.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUoaK7D_V_eDc87DUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
As the previous owner of a short-legged dog, I take offense to the comments about stubby legs. :P It’s not the stubby legs that are the problem. It’s the bone and hair and lack of breeding for an actual purpose other than the show ring!
Cardigan corgis are different. Corgis and Lankashire heelers can still do their work. But on a dog that has to run hard and fast through thickets to flush birds, short legs really isn’t an advantage. Now, if you are hunting rabbits, then working type bassets can do it. But they have normal bone. Hunting dachshunds have longer legs than show dachshunds, and most are wire-haired to protect them from thorns. Rabbits must be driven slowly, so short-legged dogs are of some advantage. Beagles that are trained to work rabbits work them at a slow pace– it’s really unexpected how slowly they drive the rabbits.
It amazes me, though, how the Sussex went from being a long-legged spaniel to being a short-legged dumpy thing that could still be used for work but is at a real disadvantage when put against working English springers and working English cockers. Heck, a golden retriever would be more useful as a flushing dog because it can cover a lot more ground than a short-legged Sussex.
That’s Lancashire heeler. I’ve seen the last name spelled with a k.
That dog is obese. It would probably be able to move better if they took some pounds off of it. Live longer, too. I only watched the Hound group, and missed half of that. (Did not see the Afghan, but I looked on the WKC site and he is not my cup of tea.) Even the Saluki was carrying too much weight, and the Greyhound actually JIGGLED. It was gross and sad.
Don’t you know that excessive fat is a sing of “good bone,” as we say in retrievers!
The golden was number 2 in sporting behind Mr. Stump. She was a blond Bernese Mountain dog with a puppy’s muzzle and head. Blond bear dog.
Bone is not squishy! :) I ran across a Labrador retriever site a couple weeks ago where ALL the dogs were obese. The dewlaps under the neck were full of fat. Fat hump over the whithers. Even the dog pictures at eight or nine months old were FAT. I wanted to e-mail them and ask at what age their dogs typically had debilitating arthritis.
I call some of these show Labs “pigadors.”
Retrievers do tend to have a bit more fat on them, but it’s not the obese dogs we all see.
The tendency to put on weight is thought to come from the St. John’s water dog, which basically had to make do with whatever food it could get. Further, it was a water dog without a less profuse coat, so the fat could be useful as insulation.
However, the show type Lab tends to get too fat, but it’s called bone. A lot of these English type goldens have this same problem, but they are less fat. In American show goldens, to make the appearance of greater bone, they just simply load the dogs with hair.
The functional body type for a retriever can be found in the Chesapeake, the flat-coat, and the curly.
It would be nice if all you people acting as authorities would at least OWN a Sussex Spaniel!
Sussex are still used for hunting in England and by some people here in America.
Stump is NOT overweight, for a male of the breed, he’s in good weight and condition.
“And the reason for this is that the Sussex as a show dog is entirely too slow as a beater’s dog or a flushing dog. And it’s too slow, because its legs are too short and its gait too coarse.”
You don’t know a thing about this breed! I have the joy of living with them and
the gait is NOT “too coarse”. (That’s not even the proper way to describe “gait ” in a dog.) Mine can move like greased lightening when chasing a bird or a rabbit. The show dogs ARE bred for function,because they wouldn’t be correct if they couldn’t move! Have you even had your hands on one in your life??
Like most people, the less you know on a subject, the more verbose you get!
I suggest that if you are intent on sounding off, find a subject about which you actually know SOMETHING!
Not built to work. End of story.
Creating short-legged spaniels was something done for show purposes some time in the middle nineteenth century. Breeding short legs into a working spaniel is lunacy. The dog is clearly handicapped when compared to a real working spaniel, working English springer or working English cocker.
I can tell you are anti show dog. I have shown and bred Sussex for over 20 years with several sold to hunters. I lived in the area that the Sussex originated and the were bred to suite their surroundings, lots of brush not the show ring. The Sussex predates the show ring and has remained the same for 150 years. It is the only spaniel that looks the same as it did 150 years ago. There are many show Champion Sussex in the U.S. and England that have hunting titles. They are bred to be the walking man’s hunting dog unlide the hyper field and springer spaniel. I have met or sold dogs to hunters that have bought and prefer the Sussex hunting traites to the traditional hunting spaniels. With their short legs does not mean they are slow. They can push through any kind of brush where other breeds fear to tread. When they are on a scent nothing will detere this hunting spaniel.
That painting of a Sussex is from THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY! That’s longer than 150 years ago, if you do the math. George Stubbs was known for his anatomical accuracy, and I don’t think he would have put longer legs on a short-legged spaniel.
I am anti-dog show. It is the most destructive force affecting dogs right now. However, its destruction is a slower process.
My own breed has had to split into show and working forms, because the show dogs have too much coat.
If I wanted a slow flusher, I’d get a working Clumber.
I wouldn’t get a museum piece, ruined by the show ring.
They aren’t necessarily slow, they just wear out after being run all day.
I wouldn’t have one unless its legs were at least 6 inches longer.
If they were so good, people would’ve gone for them, and they wouldn’t be an endangered breed.
It’s a museum piece. 150 years ago, there was a fad for breeding short legs in cockers, fields, and Sussex, but only the Sussex have short legs now. It was proved to be an inefficient model, so they bred for legs once again.
I’m sure that some people might use them, but those aren’t the mainstay of spaniel people in this country. There are very few working Sussex that are being bred in England, but it is very likely that these lines will disappear.
Working Clumbers, though, they will probably survive. They don’t look like the show version, though.
So relieved there’s no chance of your having a Sussex.
You seem to have more opinions than any human being I’ve ever known.
Too bad you have nothing positive to say, and no acknowledgement of any one else’s opinions.Oh well, keep on ranting in a safe place.
Well, I suppose that you’ve not heard of historical research.
I can tell you that 150 years ago, virtually all spaniels, except the Norfolks, waters, and the springers, were bred for short legs. This was created by some Sir Tufton or Sir Bufton, who thought that short-legged dogs were really cool. Forgetting that short-legged dogs work on only three circumstances. The Sussex spaniel is a museum piece from that time period. It once had a normal body.
Heelers, (Corgis, Vallhund, and Lancashire heelers) have short legs so they can avoid being kicked by cows. Bassets of all breeds have shoot legs so they can be followed more easily on the hunt– that’s the only reason for their short legs. They also can run the hares and rabbits out at a slower pace– putting just enough pressure to keep them moving. The only really useful earth dogs that have short legs are working-type dachshunds (Teckel).
A short-legged flushing dog is a bit of problem. Birds fly. And a dog needs to be able to cover ground efficiently and quickly. Now, if you don’t want a long-ranging quartering dog, you can train a springer or working English cocker to slow it down. I would even considering using a Field spaniel or a Welsh springer. Then I would consider a flushing retriever, although they can overheat more easily because of their denser coats and larger size. Then I would consider a working Clumber– if you really want a slow flush, go with that dog! Then I would go with a Cavalier King Charles spaniel, which are really quite birdy.
I can’t decide which spaniel is least equipped to really put the birds up– the American cocker or the basset Sussex.
There are very, very few working Sussex. Almost all are in Britain.
I worry that the working strain golden retriever will disappear in my lifetime, and there are vastly more of these than there are working Sussex.
The Sussex spaniel as a working dog is about to go the same way as the working Skye Terrier.
This old stuff is fun to read. I hope you’ll do some more of it.
I’m going to ease back on my AKC criticism– not because they don’t deserve it but because it’s a dying institution.
It’s either going to reform or die.
If I were a betting man, I’d say it’s going to die.
Some of these comments on here are hysterical.
What is the relationship between the most competititve field trial circuits and the AKC? I mean, could I theoretically run a pointer without papers in a horseback trial, or does it need AKC registration?
I read gun dog forum a lot, and I don’t think I’ve seen the letters AKC mentioned once.
Dear Bill: In the days when I was an AKC Hunting Judge, it used to be if you wanted to participate in an AKC event, the dog had to be registered with the AKC. However, the AKC, in their ever-widening effort to make money, has now permitted the entry of cross-breeds into their agility trials. So maybe they will soon allow any type of entrant (which I assume would include unregistered dogs such as yours) into a field trial.
However, Retrieverman’s very valid and strongly-held objections to the AKC notwithstanding, the original purpose of allowing only breed-registered dogs into performance events was in order to evaluate their performance against the breeds’ established and stated standard in the field. In this way, breed clubs could measure the overall improvement (or lack) of their breed in the field.
For example, in recent years, the doughty Clumber has made dramatic strides in getting more of its population to hunt. I noticed that a decade ago, hardly any Clumbers had Junior or Senior hunter titles and NONE had a Master. Today, there are scads (in comparison to their small population) of Clumbers who hunt regularly and interestingly, most of them are conformation champions, as well. In the United States, at least, I think this will militate toward keeping the breed from being divided.
I have had the experience of judging 4 different Sussex in hunt tests. That’s not a very large sample, I realize. Nevertheless, I was impressed with their determination and ability to find, flush and retrieve large birds to hand, both on land and in water all day long. None of them lacked for stamina, as Retrieverman seems to suggest. Indeed, they were among the most enthusiastic dogs I’ve ever judged. But maybe I just had a good random sample.