This is the first conformation champion in the golden retriever breed, Ch. Noranby Campfire (b. 1912) :
Check out BOB Crufts 2002.
And check out this stud dog that is producing European show line goldens in the US. He is of Swedish lines. He’s not anything like Noranby Campfire at all. Not even close.
Wow!
They both have feathering, drop-ears, and brown eyes. Both are e/e’s and likely BB or Bb in terms of color and genotype.
They are both large dogs.
But that’s where the similarities stop.
When I do a Google image search for ‘BOB winner Golden Retriever,’ I get a lot of dogs that have what appear to be very big barrels. The chest is much bigger than this dog, and makes the dogs look low on leg. It’s a bit difficult to tell how much of that is fat, though. I saw a lot of dogs that looked fat to me.
They’re trying to create Golden Clumber Spaniels, obviously.
White Newfoundlands…
It’s a Clumbers/Newfie mix…. called a “Clumsy”.
No way in hell any one would spot that for a Golden upon first look.
Hell, not even on a second or third look.
I think the European lines are based upon a very simple principle: which type of golden produces the cutest puppy and how much can we reduce the various prey drives and energy levels.
Nothing is cuter than a little polar bear cub.
I call the other dogs Bush’s Bean Dogs. I’m going to call this type the Knut Wannabe retrievers.
The picture of Noranby Campfire is a bit misleading, as he was only 10 months of age when that photo was taken, and not mature.
You may cite the other two as extremes, yes; but they are not truly representative of the breed as a whole. There are much better and more “classic” Goldens still to be found, in this country, in Canada, in the UK, in Australia, as I have seen for myself.
But then, it is most often the extremes that grab peoples’ attention.
This dog looks kinda like a newfie.
we…not newfie, meant chessie for the first photo. Then again, i’m not so hot at idetifying dogs breeds.
Here’s a pic of a typical show golden:
http://www.lukeallenphoto.com/groups/071808houston/sport/0946.htm
To me, this dog does not look intelligent, attractive or like it would be capable of doing much other than trotting around a ring.
but have they changed? or just split into two very different types (bench and field). Typing in “hunting golden retriever” in google images gains me a LOT of photos pretty similar to the “old type” Golden. So they are apparently still out there and still bred. Decrying that they aren’t wining in the bench shows — but why would one care?
Peggy Richter.
They have changed in that you really can’t show the field type in conformation anymore.
Check out this dog: http://www.shilohpark.net/CH%20Lorelei's%20Golden%20Rip.jpg
That dog was an AKC show champion.
What’s the story with “English cream” golden retrievers?
It goes back to the standard revision of 1938 (I think) in which cream was allowed as a color in the UK standard. It was originally designed to allow for a wider range of color. I have seen mid-gold dogs with very light shadings. I remember a photo of one that looked very strange, actually.
I believe the original light-colored dogs go back to a dog named Ch. Gilder.
The British standard then narrowed color to say no red or mahogany, but that color winds up being in the eye of the beholder at a certain point. Lots of darker gold dogs were passed over, and they began to concentrate on breeding for cream, which can never be confused with red.
The FCI and KC line of show dogs have become mostly pale colored dogs, and often, one of their defenders will say, “Well, the first dogs at Guisachan were very light in color.”
They were actually quite gold in color. Not as dark as this dog, but they were sort of a nice mid-gold.
This is the founding sire of the Guisachan line that eventually became golden retrievers:
Is he “white’?
Here’s another depiction from 1930’s or 1940’s dog:
https://retrieverman.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/binkss-golden-retriever.jpg?w=500&h=369
That’s a wood pigeon he/s retrieving: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Wood_Pigeon
This is the dog in gravatar, Cubbington Diver, by the same artist:
Anyone with Irish Setters or who has studied their historic photos?
IF the point was to make sure that the Golden Retrievers did not look like Irish Setters, then did the Irish Setters move from wood-brown-red to golden-red, pushing the Golden Retrievers into cream, in an effort for Golden Retrievers to look different from Irish Setters?
Or did the Irish Setters stay the same shades of red, or darken in shade, and so the lightening of the Golden Retriever was independant of any changes in the Irish Setters?